I'm a novice spannerer but not afraid of attempting it, have got most tools and reasonable space in the shed. Has anyone stripped a Gen 2 bike down to the frame? How hard would you say it is? Any specialist tools you can think of I might need and any advice. I'm in Dorset. Anyone willing to help or can help, on the cheap(ish)?

Cheers

markrsvr15 wrote: Easy mate done loads

If there is anything else you think of please just keep adding them. I've had the wheels off, suspension off and all the plastic bits so far so not much further to go I suppose

I have always wanted to have the bike with polished frame and I am going to have a go at it now after what you mentioned. I will have to clean out my shed tomorrow and make some space. Will have to put some of it in the front room. Never mind hey...

I'm sure I will get stuck on loads of things  at some point or another but definitely going for it now. I shouldn't break anything as I am a bit anal for things like that, just a bit worried I might get stuck but sure I can solve it on here if I do. Will keep everyone posted and I'll take some pics as I do it too. 

I've just had the bike serviced and valves done so will keep all the oil as its new but will just ditch all the coolant. Needs changing anyways, so not lost anything and it should just be ready for next year then. With a bit of luck

Keeps the bare polished alloy bits spotless on my ZRX1100 and the ally on that ain't a patch on Euro ally.

Or the other option to look at is get it anodized.It's not dear . The plus side is the finish is great and tough .The down side is if you mark it you can't cover it up where with paint or polish you can.

Down load a manual as well. Indispensable. 

Good castle nut tools available from Mr Turbo Tool on Flea Bay. I've got loads off him and he's good gear at a cheap price.  

Just ordered the swing arm removal kit for my abba stand and a castle nut removal tool for the swing arm nut off ebay (cheers for advice).

Oh, and got a couple of weeks clearance to move the push bikes, some other cr@p to the front room, along with the bits I take off the bike to make room in the shed. Well that was the hard bit done 

Now I just got to take the bike apart...

The shed so far 

The back room so far 

PM sent Thanks Mark. Happy with everything so far. But could really do with advice about best way to drop the engine out. 

The abba stand will support the bike and I can still take the swing arm off and drop the engine out. 

Going to drain and keep the oil tomorrow and dump the coolant and take off the radiator and exhaust pipes and all engine ancillary equipment tomorrow so pretty much as soon as the bits arrive from abba stands I can be thinking about taking the engine out.

I am thinking it might be easier to take the engine out first before the wiring and steering off the bike. But not sure if it might be easier to do just as you have mentioned and take the forks and swing arm off first and sit the bike on its engine and lift the frame off the engine.

Haven't decided yet.

Already decided to drill the rivets out of the engine plate so it doesn't get the paint taken off it when it gets paint stripped/blasted. Will rivet it back on after the frame has been polished. Not looking about getting it super shiny, just the same as the swing arm is thats all. I think its going to look mint when I have finished.

This is what it looked like before I started

I had an RSVR which was red and white before this one. It wasn't a Factory but I thought it looked way better with polished frame. You are right about the colour of the frame. I know why they did this as its a sign of the factory model. 

But not for this Factory though…  Can't wait to get it back together and post pics before and after.

I just ordered this motorcycle scissor lift from this place. Cheaper than anything in the UK.

http://www.bs-motoparts.com/en/paddock-stands/motorcycle-lift/motorcycle-jack-scissor-lift-constands-m-red-i4014-35160-0.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.bs-motoparts.com/en/paddock-stands/motorcycle-lift/motorcycle-jack-scissor-lift-constands-m-red-i4014-35160-0.htm

Thought it might be useful. If I get through this without any problems next thing will be service the bike such as valves, balancing and such. Will have to get someone to show me how to do it though I think.

I drained the oil and coolant today and removed the throttle bodies and expansion tank. Unplugged most of the wiring and can see a little bit more round the engine now. Waiting for abba swing arm removal kit and scissor lifter to arrive so I can really get on with it. The wiring loom is falling to bits so will be spending a bit of time tidying that up at some point. Engine is covered in grease and oil. Most likely over time of me spraying stuff in there and some from the rocker cover gaskets. Will need a good was down with petrol I think and then I might cover it in ACR-50 spray before putting it back. Getting closer... 

Hi m8. Not sure what you mean? I was thinking about polished frame like the swing arm. Whats scotchbrite finish?

If its worth doing and will look better I'm up for it 

Might be a nice option that and one that I am thinking about now. Might have to put a poll up on the forum for polished or scotchbrite finish to decide 

Can you guys have a look at this place for me please? They advertise a grit blast cabinet which works on a vacuum and also aqua blasting. Is this the aqua blasting what you are on about? Would the vacuum blasting be better than aqua blasting for polishing afterwards? Cheers

Out of the three if i was blasting aluminium,my self i would use aqua.

The finish is 2/3rds of the way to polish.

Is the standard finish paint or anodize ?

Any how.If you eat take away food ,save the plastic containers to put your small part's ,nuts and bolts in.

Label them up with a felt marker. That way you don't forget whats what and you know where it goes.

Saves them getting booted everywhere too.

Once the engine has come out I think the rest is not going to take long at all. I'll clean everything up whilst the frame is getting done so when I get it back I can just put it all back together.

 

if in doubt take photo's to refer back to later.

 

do you really want a fully polished frame as its a sh*t to keep on top off... keeping clean and polished i mean

redratbike wrote: when i stripped down my old 1100 gixer i had 2 pasting tables with containers and in the order i took pieces off i put them on or eventually under the tables,all in bags,boxes,containers etc so that nothing went missing.all  tagged with where they came from. .....   if in doubt take photo's to refer back to later.

Sound advice. I have 'binge watched' all 3 series of Elementary though and its all in my mind attic. Everything is in its right place at the moment. Can't say it will be tomorrow or after a couple of beers 

You can see the 3 connectors, brake light switch, speedo sensor and lambda sensor. In between the lambda sensor (big black connector) there is a box which fits in between the two connectors. Is this part of the Power Commander auto tune set up and has been added to the bike? Or is this part of OEM set up?

Cheers Spoonz. Helpful as always. 

Would the O2 optimiser be part of the Power Commander 5 stuff I bought?

The bike has full akro system on it and evo air box. Tuning wise, is this the set up I should have and its been done right with the custom map? I know its the best its ran since owning the bike but it was a bit of a dog when I first got it. 

 

It is part of a power commander setup yes. If the full Akra has no Lambda fittings then they would need the optimiser to run the bike with no Lambda fitted. The Diags in the ecu have to see the Lambda is present even if it's not being used and that part mimics it to fool the diags.

Is it worth unscrewing the oil pressure sensor incase it gets damaged when removing the engine or leave it in?

I am presuming removing the oil pipes that are under the engine would be a good idea too?

It might be worth talking to Griff as he is doing it in his sleep and will know the common pitfalls but I know generally they use 2 bods when lowering and raising the motor as it's not easy watching everything on your own.

When we did Garin's Big Bore the injector plug got trapped so watch for wires getting pinched as you lower the motor, There wasn't any issues with the oil pressure sensor that I recall but the oil pipes are at risk of getting crushed so I would pull them off if it were me.

Another question for you or and all the other gurus.

I am sourcing polishing and top coat for protection. Advice I have been given so far is chemical dipped to get rid of the paint and not to aqua blast but to then go straight to polishing and I have found a couple of companies near me to do it. 

But for protection on top of polishing I have been advised that the factory stuff is most likely clear anodising and not a lacquer.

Anyone know if this is whats is actually on the swing arm and not a clear coat of lacquer?

 

I'm going to clean up the swing arm and take it in to the anodising place so they can tell me how polished the frame needs to be to match the finish of swing arm after it has been clear anodised.

I can't really rework the swing arm again as I was advised not to do it, so only real economical solution is to match the frame with the swing arm. 

Just to wait for the swing arm removal kit from abba stands and its engine out time. Wish me luck 

Just got these through about 2hrs later 

If you polish first after it's been dipped,the finish will have more luster .Like this.

Before.

 

http://s21.postimg.org/u8ecz2slz/IMAG0680.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://s21.postimg.org/u8ecz2slz/IMAG0680.jpg

After.

 

http://s4.postimg.org/uan1xkbm5/IMAG0716.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://s4.postimg.org/uan1xkbm5/IMAG0716.jpg

I have a friend who says he can clear anodise the frame. Thing is its not going to cost me much to get it done as I know him. I spoke to the polishers and they can highly polish the frame for around £100. 

Still open to suggestions, but at the moment going to take my swing arm to my friend to have a look at and ask him how shiny does the frame need to be to match the swing arm. I know I can bring the finish up on my swing arm quite easily but I really want my frame and swing arm to match. I don't think I will end up with a frame brighter than my swing arm, but probably wouldn't look to bad if it was to be fair.

I'm looking at dropping the engine tomorrow so should have the frame and swing arm ready to go next week. 

Don't think I'm going to see the bike back together till end of Jan to be fair 

The bearings in the swinging arm on the needle roller side need careful attention though.

If you want it close enough a man on a flying horse won't notice then just do the frame and live happily ever after.If you like i will get photo of the finish on the two ensemble . Every one who sees it now asks if i bought a replacement and when i tell them it cost £40 total including the fuel to deliver and collect it 

the questions start because the finish is that good.

Give us a nod if you want a pic.

I think just doing the frame will be the most economical way of doing it on my budget. However it turns out and whatever I end up doing, it has got to be better than the awful gold colour.

I got a bit stuck last night as couldn't get a couple of hex bolts out on the front of the bike as they had rusted in. So just walked away. Did they this morning. Learnt a trick from the RC car world of getting knackered hex bolts out by smacking in a star drive with a hammer. They just popped out after that. No problems.

 

so the swingarm needs the same surely ,acid dipping/un-anodising,polishing then reanodising?

Yes dip the lot it's the same process and where i caused myself many hours unnecessarily rubbing down.

When i got to the anodizer he laughed at me and said "we just strip them in the tank,that preps the surface for etching too".

The comment i made about the bearings is they need to come out for the process so you have an additional cost . The arm needs getting up to temp as well to remove the needle roller cage , for easy removal. Getting them in without damaging is the thing so heat up for 10 mins again and have the bearings in the deep freeze.Don't forget to measure the depth they're pushed in too.

The thing that anyone needs to understand is, 1 , any marks or corrosion area marks will stay.

2 All other metal needs to be stripped off.

The finished product is well worth the effort.

Ha ha we must have read and commented at the same time.

Got the engine out. Not too hard to be fair. The Constand I bought from Germany is well worth the money. I used my battery drill with a socket on it to lower it. It worked a treat.

The Abba stand is mint too. One tip I will be doing next time and when putting the engine back is putting the front lift arm on it as the stand is too easily over-balanced forward with the swing arm off. Just makes the stand a lot more solid with the bar on. Personally I think it would be a good thing to put it on there in most cases when working on the bike. Especially if you have a plywood floor in your garage or shed.

I had no shims between the front engine mounts. Just the big thick spacers that hold the radiator mounts. Are there supposed to be shims in there? 

Also found a big chip inside the steering stem where someone had tried to knock the inner race out and chipped the alloy. There is only one key way access on the top one on mine so I had to used a screwdriver on one side and just gently tap it out and used a hex driver on the other side. The frame inside had quite a bit chip in it where someone has obviously twatted it with a screwdriver and not looked what they were doing. 

Any road, cleaned the frame off and swing arm ready for next week. There are two press in thread inserts inside the frame where the ignition coil bolts screw in to. Not sure if these are alloy or steel. If they are steel then they won't be in there after anodising 

The frame has also got lumps of rubber inside it that are put in there as its been made. Not sure what will happen to them either. You can't get them out.

I wasn't aware that they would blow the alloy out as well. Thats not good.

Will try to get them out if I can then if we are not sure. I think I could screw a bolt in to the threads and basically rip/pull the insert out of the frame if I have to. Where the plastic bits that go up the side of the frame are also bits that have been added to the frame. Not sure on these either. I think they are welded to the frame, if they have my guess is they will be aluminium as well.

My thinking is Aprilia wouldn't make two different frames. But thinking about the RSVR and the Factory its possible that they might. My thinking is that both the painted frame and the clear anodised frame is the same frame and the inserts were in there on both frames before any work was carried out. Only way to really check I suppose would be to have a look at an RSVR clear anodised frame and see if the inserts have been anodised or have been put in afterwards.

Or just pull them out of the frame and try to put them back in afterwards if I can. Worse case scenario I end up having to buy a new frame already clear anodised 

Cheers for the advice earlier.

I was pondering over it and couldn't rest till I went back out and checked, so took used a flywheel from one of my RC car race ignitions and funnily enough the inserts are ferrous so they will definitely have to come out.

I also had a look at the bits where the plastic side bits that go down the frame fasten on to that hold the fairing and they are not magnetic and also seem to be tacked on by small welds so guessing that these are aluminium so should be safe, but will get them checked.

Will run the flywheel over the entire frame at some point just to check if there is ferrous metal on there and also get my friend who is going to do the anodising to have a good look at the frame. 

If anyone else has got any advice before I go any further please don't hesitate to add. Cheers.

And have a look at the two round mounting points that the screws go in to. Could you have a look at them and see if they are anodised the same as the rest of the frame or look like they have been added afterwards. Thanks

If there would be any chance of posting a couple of close up pics of them that would be most helpful too.

Only option would be to cut them out…

I think the rest of the frame is good to anodise though apart from the plastic side mounting points on each side mentioned earlier.

Any advice

 

I'm also not sure if the entire frame is anodised. Generally cast surfaces don't anodise so well so it's possible only the finished surface sections were anodised separately before the frame was assembled.

Cheers for further help and advice guys. Really helpful. 

So I am assuming at the moment that its the same threaded rivet in the frame for the ignition coil bolts as in the sub-frame for the seat. Won't really know till I get them. I don't know yet but if it is then there might just be a chance of me getting them out of the frame, leaving the original hole and then smacking a new rivet in after anodising if I get it done. 

Going down to see my friend so he can have a look at the frame and give me some advice on the anodising before I go any  further and i'll take it from there. Either way, now I have come this far I am having a polished frame one way or another.

Anyone got a Gen2 polished alloy frame that they might want to swap for my gen2 factory gold frame before I go any further?

I also don't think that there is any way of getting the rivet out of the frame because of this. I Can't drill them out as I can't afford them to drop in to the frame. Need to somehow get them to remove outwards. 

I'll have a think and make my mind up tomorrow. I was thinking about just drilling them out with a hole cutter and weld a top hat with an M6 thread in the middle of it in to the frame. All depend on what my friend says about anodising tomorrow

If this is the case I might be able to knock the barrel bit back down inside the rivet and be able to then get the rivet to come though the frame. If this is how they work then there is no amount of pulling on the thread that will make the rivet come out. Basically the more you tighten down on it the tighter the rivet gets.

The more I think about this, the more I suspect thats how they work.

I'm also thinking that if I can knock the threaded barrel, if thats how they work, back down I might be able to get something on top of the barrel so I can use the threaded barrel to help pull the rivet out. 

Its looking a bit better now to be fair. I got fed up deciding so just drilled them out. No point going round in circles. Once I got them out I realised there was no way that they were going to come  through the frame. Not sure if that is a thin washer on there or some coating or thin metal lining on there or what. There was no way of getting them out without them falling in to the frame. Going to weld some top hats with M6 threads down the centre of them. It will be good as new when I get them done.

I also drilled out the frame plate so when i put it back on it looks like new. The ends of the rivets that held it on dropped inside the frame. Also managed to get both of them out too which was a bonus.

So far the frame is looking good. Lets hope my friend gives me some good news tomorrow

I really appreciate that. 

Its not finished yet. There's lots more to follow 

These are the 20mm holes where I had to drill out the threaded rivets that were used for the HT coil bolt mountings.

I made up some aluminium insets with an m6 thread down the middle. I stuck some long m6 bolts in to them just so they cannot drop in to the frame and then not be able to get them out.

I'm going to get these welded in to the frame. My thinking is the long bolt will help locate them in the right place whilst welding. Going to look at getting them around 1-2mm proud of the inside of the frame. Then the frame will be going up to the polishers.

I think at this stage now how this turns out will all be down to the clear anodising.

Early Gen 2 Factory models had a blackish frame so you could go that route in powder coat.

 

 

 

 

Have you got shares in building and gardening services or something ?

 

I've got to skim my walls and paint my lounge door and he has to weed the garden. I reckon some OCD is kicking in.

 

If so Stu's bike must do your head in

There are a few bits like the inside which i asked not to bother with to save a bit of money but all the bits you can see are shiny. Especially the sides of the frame. They are currently a mirror finish. I took this pic inside the store room and there wasn't much light so the pics don't really do it justice. Hoping it will stay like it after anodising. 

The welding has got silicone in it which come out black during the processes. Its easy to clean off, bit of furniture polish and a cloth. But I can't be arsed doing it. Its good enough to put straight back together

What these guys don't know in this field just isn't worth knowing. 

These guys did the polishing. You want to speak to Mike.

http://www.mmpolishingltd.co.uk

You want to chemical strip the frame, not bead or aqua blast it and then steam clean the frame to get all the loose bits of paint off.

Cost were £25 chemical stripping, £140 for polishing and £100 for anodising. A lot of money but worth every penny in my books, especially the anodising. That was exceptional for what Noel did.

Yes well please with it. The pics don't do it justice, it actually changes colour depending what angle you look at it as its so shiny and the finish is mint. Not surprised since they do the Ariel frame. These guys really know what they are doing. I was well lucky finding them.

About £300 all up with petrol and everything.
 

That engine lift stand is mint. Wait till you go to pick it up. Its well heavy

Yes its work of art. A £4500 work or art. I saw one up close with Noel and it really is beautiful and the anodising processes that they do to them are exceptional, they really look after them. They have left all the engineering and machining marks on them too. It really is a work of art and looks mint and the finishing touch is what Noel does to them. They are perfect