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Occasional starter, no firing |
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tfcoulson 
Moto2 racer 
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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 Topic: Occasional starter, no firingPosted: 01 Jun 2023 at 17:03 |
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Hi, Bike was running well (the lithium I got didnt last long, expensive but useless unfortunately!). A few days ago it suddenly cut out twice on the way home from work (the second time it came back alive I might have let the clutch out so sort of bump started, cant remember exactly). The dash was blank and everything shut down. A day or two later, it wouldnt start. Just sounded like a rapid clicking sound from near the battery. Tried it a few times and after about 15 minutes of trying it finally kicked in and sounded strong as soon as I pushed the button. Home no problem and no issues the next day. The day after that though the same again. Same rapid clicking from the rear and no attempt at starting. about 20 minutes later it worked, I turned it off, tried again and took another 5 or 10 to start again. I might have jinxed it as I had just purchased the uprated cables! Already have the 150 solenoid and the battery is new. Wondering if the hot days over here are doing something to it from sitting out in the sun all day. Anything I can check seeing as its a bit intermittent?
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stitchmilie
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Joined: 30 Jan 2022 Location: Lancashire Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 17:37 |
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I know you have a 150 solenoid but the rapid clicking from under the seat sounds like a knackered starter solenoid to me.
I believe you can put a screw driver or something similar across the terminals, if it starts ok the solenoid is knackered but never done it myself.
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Spoonz
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Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10957 |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 17:38 |
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If it’s shutting down completely as in no power, it’s likely a connection issue. It’s going to be a process of elimination on major connectors but maybe start with the 30amp fuses near the batt. The spades on them and holder can get corrosion
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Mikey
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Joined: 05 Feb 2015 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 17:42 |
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Seems like you have two separate issues?
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RSV1000R, m.y. 2007
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Bladerunner919
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Joined: 19 Mar 2020 Location: Bracknell Status: Offline Points: 405 |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 17:47 |
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I don't think it's likely to be two issues - all this sounds like a bad connection, as mentioned previously. That could also have led to the battery failure. When you say you have just bought the uprated cables - have you fitted them yet? If so, I'd go back over your installation. If not, I'd get them in and see what happens - it'll give you a good opportunity to go through all the major wiring connections.
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tfcoulson
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Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 01 Jun 2023 at 20:47 |
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No I've not got them yet. Plan is mostly to see how it behaves when they're in. I'll check over the cables when I get them in
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tfcoulson
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Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 07:01 |
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oops missed a couple of the replies there and only saw the last one. I did try bridging the solenoid but other than a xoiple of tiny sparks nothing (maybe the toolkit screwdriver wasn't the best to try it with). Spent last night cleaning the ground to engine and taking apart the starter - only way to remove the corroded bolts connecting it - and gave those bolts a clean. No start this morning unfortunately. Hopefully get the replacement cables sometime this weekend or next. Wish I still had the old solenoid to test but nevermind. I'll check the 30a fuse tonight but think the last time I looked at it it looked OK. Strange thing is the dash didn't reset when the power cut like I thought it would have if the connection was loose somewhere.
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redratbike
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The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16331 |
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 07:37 |
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which bike gen1 or gen2 ???
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tfcoulson
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Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 07:39 |
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gen 1. Also just a thought. If I pur a meter on the starter motor would I expect to see a reading on it? If so what?
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Bladerunner919
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 09:55 |
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To test, or rule out, the solenoid I would undo the battery (just to stop anything shorting), unbolt the two large leads that go to the solenoid and make sure they can't touch anything, or each other, then reconnect the battery. Touch the two solenoid wires together and the starter should spin - you don't need to have the ignition on, and make sure it's in neutral, because it'll power the starter regardless.
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 17:42 |
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nope no spinning, just a couple little puffs of smoke
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Bladerunner919
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 18:31 |
From?
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 19:01 |
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the two cables I connected, didn't hear any sounds other than that.
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Stevex
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Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 2023 at 15:08 |
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Almost exactly the same symptoms on my Gen 1 Tuono.
I got my bike back on the road after the winter in April and it cut out during a run for about 2-3 seconds, then has run normally ever since once rolling. Interestingly it did exactly the same the previous year, on it's first post winter layup run. A few weeks back it wouldn't start and on one occasion I was pushing the starter and getting no starter motor rotation, then it would start and run normally. I took it to a petrol station to fill it up and it did the same at the pumps but not as badly and started after a few attempts. It has since behaved itself and I can't reproduce the problem. I had a good look at the wiring diagram and read posts on here and AF1. I actually started a thread on the Tuono part of this forum and legend88 linked to good threads after he had similar problems. Reading those lead to a thread about the side stand cut out switch and from what I can follow on the wiring diagram, it could cause both problems. KZMille has a post in which he bypassed the side stand switch for the cut out, but left the indication on the dash intact. I carried out this mod, only took about 15 minutes. So far I've had no repetition of these faults, but it's early days. One thing to check also is when you turn the ignition on, check the fuel pump runs, and also listen for the pump relay; it's under the passenger seat, the left one as you sit on the bike. I listened for this clicking every time I turned the ignition switch. I also disconnected the connector at the starter solenoid and pushed the start button and held it. When you do this the pump should run until you release the button; mine worked faultlessly. If you havent replaced your starter motor cable, check its connection at the motor itself as I read of one owner checking it to find it badly corroded, I checked mine but it was ok.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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tfcoulson
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Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 12:05 |
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I cleaned up the starter motor cable and post as it was pretty corroded, took apart the starter motor too and now its all back together it isn't intermittent anymore, doesnt start at all, ..so maybe that's easier to work with! I'll have a look at the side stand wiring bypass. Actually now you mention it I don't think I did hear the fuel pump prime the last few times I turned it on. Unfortunately won't have the replacement cables for another couple months as someone was going to bring them over from the UK for me but missed the delivery so will have to wait for those. Edit: pump cable wasn't fully seated so that primes again. |
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redratbike
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 12:55 |
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bypass the side stand switch find the plug and bridge the 2 outside wires
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 13:01 |
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Yep was just working on that now, should the bike be able to start with the sidestand switch unplugged? It's just started firing again bit does it with the cable plugged in and unplugged
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redratbike
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 15:00 |
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if the side stand switch plays up than bridging it out at the plug eliminates that as an issue
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redratbike
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 15:06 |
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just a thought have you plugged the diagnostic wires together to get any fault codes in case a sensor is playing up ???
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 19:57 |
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yep I didn't get anything. Side stand switch wiring done and as its starting again at the moment will just have to see how it goes I think.
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 04 Jun 2023 at 22:06 |
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took it for a 30 minute ride and was all fine, stopped off at the fuel station near me and the battery struggled to start it. Managed to get it going second attempt. So now need to figure out why it's not being charged! This thing is never ending! The alternator plugs are in pretty bad shape and fairly melted so think I might replace the plugs. Already bypassed the brown plug as that had melted too.
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Bladerunner919
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Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 09:51 |
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What voltage are you getting across the battery terminals with the engine running - with a meter, rather than the dash reading?
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Stevex
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Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1481 |
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Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 13:23 |
Oem RRs are a known weak link with these bikes. I replaced my reg /rec with a Shindengen Mosfet from a Honda 1000, FH014AA. Others have used an FH020. I checked my oem RR out of curiosity and found it only charging at 13.5v at approx 5k rpm. The replacement gives me 14.4v at the same revs. I also checked the stator output; should go from approx 20v at idle to about 70v at 5k rpm on each yellow cable. As part of the replacement I removed the brown connector and wired the RR outlets direct to the battery terminals with a fuse on the +ve side. Better to remove the white connector than replace it. Solder or splice the wires together; the reason the connectors over heat is due to poor connections. I got my info from here: Voltage Rectifier/Regulator upgrade (Honda, Yamaha rectifiers) (apriliaforum.com) The FH014AA doesnt have after market connectors available but I used spades and have had no problems in years.  |
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 05 Jun 2023 at 20:40 |
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I think I was getting about 13.5ish. It was going down a little when revving past 4k. Removed the stator connector near the engine and tested there and was getting above 80 for them all so happy the stator is OK. Just waiting on some soldering/heat shrink things to be delivered as I couldn't solder the cables together and don't have a crimper anymore. The connector was an absolute dirty melted mess so once this is properly joined back up I'll see if it's charging. Its starting though so there's a plus! Ideally don't want to replace the regulator if I can help it but thanks for the link if I need to I can look into a different one. Edit: and just went out do double check the voltage and it wouldn't start! Checked the voltage across the starter solenoid and was getting around 1v I think where it should have been 0.
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Stevex
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Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 11:27 |
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Replacing the RR is easy and I did it after reading about the many failures of the oem unit. The Mosfet is an upgrade as well as a replacement; do it, it'll give you peace of mind.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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tfcoulson
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Joined: 23 Oct 2016 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: 06 Jun 2023 at 15:52 |
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yep been looking at that today, need to measure the width to see if the fh020 will fit, nice that the connectors are available for it. Got a solenoid on the way too and I'll get the cables shipped over with it.
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 13:02 |
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replaced the solenoid, did the side stand bypass, uprated cables installed, soldered the connectors at the reg/rec side and the barrel one too, diode in the rear seat was also failing one of the tests so that's been replaced. And so far so good :) I can stop hating the bike again :) think the wheels, rear shock and engine are the only thing I haven't changed now...
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 25 Jul 2023 at 09:52 |
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after all that it's been cutting out randomly again. Almost like a loose connection or battery disconnecting but everything seems tight. Pulling in clutch and out seems to sortof jump start it and it comes back up
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legend88
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Posted: 26 Jul 2023 at 13:52 |
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Does wiggling the key in the ignition make any difference? Check out my thread that SteveX referred to above: http://rsvr.net/topic27149.html |
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tfcoulson
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Posted: 30 Jul 2023 at 18:37 |
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hmm thats a definite possibility then. Sometimes I turn it to on and have to adjust it slightly to turn on, seems completely random though. I did take it apart and put it back together and it got better but I'll have another look, thanks
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tfcoulson wrote: