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Trickle charges on Mille

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DaBi5cu1t View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 17:32
I have a 2001 Mille with the Yuasa battery upgrade. Just wondering what trickle charges people use over the cold months. I haven't bought one before so not experienced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 18:40
I don't Shocked

And neither should you Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 20:00
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

I don't Shocked

And neither should you Wink


Why Ian?
Always used optimate thingies.....averaged 10 yr+ battery life.
Never ever had an issue. Important that you keep connectors clean though.
Also, when I had the Ape, a super-duper tip top fully charged 100% battery was essential to give the sprag an easier life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 21:12
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

I don't Shocked

And neither should you Wink


A little predictable Ian? It's become one of your hobby horses I think!  Evil SmileLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2019 at 21:27
People have varied and very strong views on this subject. I use an Optimate over the winter but don't usually bother through the riding season unless the bike has gone more than about three weeks without a decent ride (Rare depending on the weather).

There is a continuous current drain from ECU/Dash which is why Aprilia recommend pulling the 30A fuses if the bike is going to be left standing for an extended period of time. The manual states to do this if the bike is to be unused for more than twenty days. Disconnecting the battery would have the same effect. It also states that the battery should be charged if the the bike has not been used for fifteen days.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 10:19
I just disconnect from the bike (not that theirs any real loss of voltage when left connected) and give it a quick charge every few (4-8) weeks.

The Motobatt charger I have will switch to trickle once fully charged but I just think it's a waste of electric for no real benefit. Feels like trickling in fuel to keep a constant overflow to counteract any evaporation.
Owen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 11:29
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

People have varied and very strong views on this subject. I use an Optimate over the winter but don't usually bother through the riding season unless the bike has gone more than about three weeks without a decent ride (Rare depending on the weather).

There is a continuous current drain from ECU/Dash which is why Aprilia recommend pulling the 30A fuses if the bike is going to be left standing for an extended period of time. The manual states to do this if the bike is to be unused for more than twenty days. Disconnecting the battery would have the same effect. It also states that the battery should be charged if the the bike has not been used for fifteen days.



Hobby horse  Ray?  probably Sleepy    I just don't like to see myths propagated ad infinitum Wink

Several  (ex) members have complained about their batteries being boiled dry and they mostly seem to have been following a regime of the battery being charged all the time while the bike wasn't being used and they changed their habits thereafter.

Regarding Aprilia's recommendations,yes,if you have an old fashioned lead acid battery of the barely adequate spec that they supplied as OE then possibly pulling the fuse before leaving the bike for 3 weeks is justified ( remember they'll be working with a big safety margin though)

When I had a lead acid albeit a much smaller version on both my Sv1000s and my Mille I would start the bike every 3/4 weeks regardless until around Nov when I'd remove the battery.

I'd then take it indoors and give it an hours charge on an Oximiser ( Spit,only bike charger I had ) then leave it disconnected until the following March when it got another quick top up before going back on the bike unattended until Nov.

So no trickle charging needed all it's working season.  

PROVEN practice over a decade or more with a couple of bikes,both with lead acid bats.

On the subject of batteries in general I've come to the conclusion it's very hit and miss life span wise as although I've had ten year life with one I've had around 3 years with another.  Car batteries seem even more varied.

Some people seem to replace bike batteries on an almost yearly basis it,whilst others manage 10 years so it's a bit of a lottery.

However things move on and Lithium batteries are now so superior to lead acid ( for bikes anyway) that I can't make a case for having lead acid unless one is so cash strapped finance dictates.

As I said somewhere else,if your engine doesn't start within a couple of seconds you have issues that need sorting,not relying on keep churning the starter hoping it'll fire.

Going Lithium I bought a specific charger with it as a package deal but I never took the thing out of it's box,just put it straight into storage up in the loft space.

I didn't even bother giving the new Lithium a boost before fitting it and haven't touched it since,not even bothered disconnecting it over winter and it always starts as reliably as flicking a light switch.

So it's my belief that that slavishly keeping a battery of any sort on a trickle charger is in fact contra indicated.

Has anyone sought Griff's thoughts on Optimates? Wink

When I last had a conversation with him on this subject he never used one either,he may well have changed now I don't know as it's been a while since we spoke.

So for what it's worth  ( nothing LOL) my thoughts are

a)   Get everything working as it should first
b)   Fit a Lithium unit if at all possible
c)    Just start the thing every 3 weeks Gen1,or I know I can go 5 weeks+ on my Gen2
d)   Forget you have a trickle charger

I'll try and resist commenting on the subject in future Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kommando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 15:51
Rather than leave a battery on permanent charge even a trickle I put them on a timer for 30 mind a day, no drying out but kept fully charged.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 15:57
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

So for what it's worth  ( nothing LOL) my thoughts are

a)   Get everything working as it should first
b)   Fit a Lithium unit if at all possible
c)    Just start the thing every 3 weeks Gen1,or I know I can go 5 weeks+ on my Gen2
d)   Forget you have a trickle charger

I'll try and resist commenting on the subject in future Tongue

Your comments are always welcome Ian as they are also some of the more informed/technically justified we find on here. Big smileHug

I agree with most of the thrust of your comments in that the key thing is that the bike is well maintained and the battery in good condition. With our bikes I think we also agree on the three key starting circuit upgrades that are essential, namely Starter Solenoid, Battery & Starter Cables and some form of upgraded battery that gives higher CCA. However it is a fact that there is a constant current drain due to ECU/Dash as a minimum and maybe alarms or other accessories for those that have them (I don't) that will over time deplete any battery if left unused and connected.

However I do think there is a place for an intelligent charger like an Optimate (Rather than just a normal budget trickle charger) if the bike is being left for some time. I differentiate between an Optimate and basic chargers because as you know (But some readers may not) an Optimate is NOT always in charge mode as it spends most of it's time simply monitoring the battery and only giving it a light trickle occasionally. Actually, this is much as you suggest doing manually only using data from monitoring to make the Optimum(!) decision over when to do so.

I completely accept your experiences as fact but I have two Optimates both over ten years old, one for the bike (Winter or the longer summer off periods) and one I used in the past for my race car but now only gets used occasionally for random uses. Before I used the Optimate on the bike it would go flat over the winter. No, I didn't disconnect it as I should have done and I guess that is the rub, follow proper procedures and who knows. But like many I suspect, the bike gets put in the garage in the Autumn or early winter after a ride and hopefully a wash etc expecting/hoping to get out again. Then the first salt goes down, you say stuff that and the bike then sits forgotten until the spring. The proper storage procedures don't always get followed, that's just real life sometimes.

I also accept that a faulty Optimate (Or any other charger including the charging circuit on the bike) has the potential to kill any battery connected to it but my two examples (Actually more like fifteen years old) both still do as they should - Only my experience of course.

Batteries. I know you are sold on Lithium, I am not quite there yet. I agree as a technology they are superior but they are also less tolerant to lack of care than a lead acid battery. They cannot be recovered if allowed to run flat and do not perform well in cold conditions (Which is not such an issue for most of us). Also most lithium batteries aimed at bikes are VERY LOW capacity and this is one reason why their weight is so dramatically lower than standard batteries. With like for like capacity whilst still significantly lighter the difference nowhere near so great. For me the jury is still out on this one.

You know all of the above but the discussion may help others in their pondering!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 17:47
Kept my speed triple and also keep my 09 Tuono factory on optimate and never had a problem to date still on original battery on Tuono ????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 19:59
I'm not going to even put my pennys worth in hahaha. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2019 at 21:12
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

I'm not going to even put my pennys worth in hahaha. 



The way I see it is that the battery.......... err no. No. LOL


Question everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2019 at 09:15
Originally posted by Diablo Diablo wrote:

Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

I'm not going to even put my pennys worth in hahaha. 



The way I see it is that the battery.......... err no. No. LOL



Stop it Rick LOL
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2019 at 17:28
Lead acids in all 4 bikes in the garage.
2 out of the 4 batteries are about a year old, the Tuono's and the Duc M696 still have the ones that came fitted with the bikes when bought used.
I've got a Datatool charger and all 4 batteries give the fully charged light indication within 5 minutes of connection, so I usually disconnect it again. More of a confidence check than anything else.
I'm a great believer that if you look after electrical equipment, it'll look after you. The Tuono has up graded starter / earth wiring, starter solenoid and an FH014AA RR with brown connector removed. 
During the summer months when it occasionally sits for a few weeks, it'll still fire up immediately.
To maintain a lead acid in peak condition and prevent sulfation the battery should be saturation charged and remain on charge with the correct float voltage, which is exactly what a 'trickle' charger is designed to do.
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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