FAQ Register Login |
Tank swell |
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Author | |
redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16147 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Could you do this in stages I.e. Coat the bottom,cure then lay on its side and coat the side ,etc etc
|
|
www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
|
FTM
Moto GP Alien Joined: 04 Apr 2016 Location: Lovedean Status: Offline Points: 381 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Spit-roast the tank.
|
|
Shyted
Moto GP Alien Joined: 20 Jun 2015 Location: The NorthWest Status: Offline Points: 1335 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ha ha ha . My misses went ape sh*t at me for, A ,having crank cases in the oven and B ,trying my hand at DIY carbon fiber making in the oven.
Joking aside, we use silica gel bags in masive junction boxes ouside , and theyre exposed to all manner of weather.Harsh environment on old crap.They work pretty good and absorb loads of moisture . Very cheap method . When the ice comes ,drain and strip the tank,let it air out for a week.Pack it full of the bags and store it some place indoors where it's warm and dry or do you have a de humidifier.Don't think there really is a quick fix by the sounds of it and time seems to be the best one. The coating seems a good idea for when you get it sorted though.
|
|
I used to be uncertain , but now i'm not sure anymore
|
|
Zax
Premium Member Joined: 13 Jun 2008 Location: Abedeen / Oslo Status: Offline Points: 948 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
My one was bearing shafts in the freezer being discovered and the Bearings in the oven heating to installation temp |
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You can get bags of the silica granules from Aldi as inserts for the dehumidifier boxes they sell. Just watch out when they have absorbed all the moisture they go solid so might be ndifficult getting them out! Cheap as chips if I remember right.
You would need to make sure you seal the tank with the silica inside otherwise you will just be grabbing moisture out of the atmosphere. |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Here are some photos of the resin I used to coat the plastic tub. As you can see from the first photo the inside was keyed and you can see the scratches which the resin should be grabbing onto. You can see where it has stuck with the black patch that is obviously the only place it has taken. This is the inside of the tub after the lose resin had been peeled away. The cold over night just cracked the resin and pushed it from the surface in most areas. If it had been warmed up the same would have happened but the plastic would have pulled away from the resin. This is the little pile of resin that I collected from the tub. I gave it the best chance of holding by keying the inside of the tub. But you would not be able to do that over the whole of the inside of the tank. The problem with trying to do it in sections is you need to key where the resin has cured as epoxy needs to have something to grab onto. If you dont it will just peel away at the joints anyway. Sealer is not an answer. If it was I would be selling the stuff as the Caswell resin works out about £100.00 per kilo and I get the same resin for less than that so it would be a good profit. But I just cannot imagine someone using it and then getting back to me and telling me it has not worked when I already know it will not work.. It would be like ripping people off... Not good.. |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Long day.. damn.. Wrong photo again..
This is the inside of the tub after the lose resin had been peeled away. The cold over night just cracked the resin and pushed it from the surface in most areas. If it had been warmed up the same would have happened but the plastic would have pulled away from the resin. |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So when you coat your tanks it works because the carbon fibre is much more temp stable?
Is CF ethanol resistant without a sealer? |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The carbon I use does have some Phenol Novolac as part of its formulation but not enough to say it is resistant. So I use a pure base Phenol Novolac resin to seal it. I do it as I assemble the tank so the sealer is painted onto the inner surface to get full coverage. I also make my own adhesive which uses the same resin to ensure even the joints are ethanol resistant too.
Carbon has zero expansion or contraction due to heat. The sealer resin also has no expansion due to heat compared to many other resins. |
|
Topdeck
L Plates Joined: 20 Aug 2016 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Used Caswell on my tank.
Here's the write up. http://bikemeet.net/index.php?topic=8161.0 Just putting this up for info, heard all the arguements for and against but doing nothing wasn't an option if I wanted the tank painted. I'll let you know how it works out. |
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ahh, The Guinea Pig!
Waiting with baited breath for the results. |
|
IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Presumably said guinea pig dried his tank completely before coating it?
|
|
www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, he at least went at it with a hair dryer form the write up in the link. How much more it needs, if anything, who knows. |
|
Sparky46
Premium Member Joined: 16 Mar 2016 Location: Fife Status: Offline Points: 333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Still in two minds to do this or not. Tank has been drained and just need to take it off the bike and bring it inside. Once the tank has (hopefully) shrunk back down I may just take the cowards way out and try the fuel stabiliser, then if that fails look at doing the coating the following year.
|
|
IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I did mine with a powerful hot air gun many times over an extended period and that was still distorted.
The yanks are talking about many months in a hot environment to dry them. An hour or two of warm air isn't going to make much difference when the nylon is so saturated it's come right through and bubbling the paint on the outside. I hope he gets lucky |
|
www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
|
Topdeck
L Plates Joined: 20 Aug 2016 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Took a lot longer then a couple of hours with a hair dryer!
That was just helping one of the many times it was washed and then flushed out with xylene. Have a look at the vid in the link. All the paint has been stripped and it will dry out for at least two weeks like that before it gets repainted. |
|
Topdeck
L Plates Joined: 20 Aug 2016 Status: Offline Points: 3 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Also forgot to mention that I inspected the coated tank with an endoscope and it was completed coated. I rotated the tank continuously for about 90mins with the Caswell in the tank and had a sample in a small pot to see when the curing was complete. I had no puddling in tank and didn't have any access Caswell run out when I'd finished. The inside is covered in a consistent coating.
|
|
IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
As I said before,good luck
|
|
www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
will be interesting to see how it stands up to a year of season changes. The resin may have a little flex (which shoes it is not a full Phenol Novolac resin but a blended resin as Phenol Novolac is a rigid resin when cured) but it has no expansion when it warms up. Constant rotation would help keep it coated evenly but most will not do that. 90 minutes is a short period of time to be rotating it unless the resin has a faster action catalyst which would imply that it is a blended resin with a Bisphenol A epoxy which is a more flexible resin compared to the Phenol Novolac although is less chemical resistant content and it is also less suited to temperature changes compared to the Phenol Novolac. You also have to remember that plastics have a self releasing property with resins so they do not bond by cross linking or a chemical bonding which is typical of plastic adhesives which is the strongest bond with plastics. It has to rely on a mechanical bond with epoxy resins which is not ideal.
The Pre-preg I use also has a phenol novolac content in its formulation but the manufacturer has said they would not class it as an ethanol resistant formulation and I adding more to the formulation would effect how the materials work. This why I have to use the Phenol Novolac and as I have said I could supply it to anyone in 1kg quantities but I would not trust it long term. The company who supply the resin to me have used my products to promote the resin. But if you read the properties is has good dimensional stability which is totally the opposite of plastics... http://www.alchemie.com/2016/08/epoxy-ep575-fuel-tank/ |
|
bladebod
World Superbike Star Joined: 08 Nov 2016 Location: Portsmouth Status: Offline Points: 216 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ive just bought a plastic tanked Mille, does anyone know whether the "std" Mille steel tanks fits the "R" model
|
|
426hemi
Premium Member owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Online Points: 5677 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yep straight swap.
|
|
bladebod
World Superbike Star Joined: 08 Nov 2016 Location: Portsmouth Status: Offline Points: 216 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
At the risk of sounding daft why dont owners just swap out the tank for a steel one, when it comes to selling the bike just put the placcy one back on and wave goodbye. Apart from the paint aspect it seems a do-able work-around.
|
|
Sparky46
Premium Member Joined: 16 Mar 2016 Location: Fife Status: Offline Points: 333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That's ok if you have a Gen1 mate but if you have a Gen2 that isn't an option...well not to my knowledge anyway. |
|
Fugly
Moto GP Alien Joined: 18 Nov 2015 Location: Cambridgeshire Status: Offline Points: 754 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Anyone anygood at panel beating a sheet of ally into a Gen 2 shape?
Although the swelling on my tank isn't too bad (I can get it bolted down) I now have small lumps appearing like blisters in the paint which I understand to be an issue of the ethanol saturating the plastic. Bugger, arse and bollox
|
|
Full Arrows system, 1060 Big Bore, PC5 and Evo Airbox. Bring on the big grin!
|
|
426hemi
Premium Member owner of the big bore! Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Location: cannock Status: Online Points: 5677 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Beater in Japan make alloy tanks for gen 1 but not sure about gen2.
|
|
Sparky46
Premium Member Joined: 16 Mar 2016 Location: Fife Status: Offline Points: 333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
When I took mine off yesterday noticed that one of the graphics was starting to bubble up
Reckon if someone started knocking out some steel/ally tanks there would be plenty buisness to be had. |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The Tuning works do an RS250 tank in alloy.. It is the same price as my carbon ones and still needs to be etch primed and painted end should still be sealed as alloy is also attacked by ethanol..
As there are several versions it is the same issue as I have.. Which one will sell the most?? I have a Gen 2 tank here ready to mould from... But not enough willing to make it worth while to do.. Even for an alloy tank they need a former to get the shape close and would need to have a minimum number to make it worth while. Looking at the cost of a typical beater alloy fuel tank you would be looking at about £2300 for one of their tanks... ($2800). It would still need to be painted too... I had estimated about £1000 less for a pre-preg carbon tank... I think I need to up my prices to match Beater... lol.. http://japan.webike.net/products/21788541.html |
|
morepower
Moto2 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2014 Location: hinkley Status: Offline Points: 142 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Post Reply | Page <1234> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |