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redratbike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 12:02
Could you do this in stages I.e. Coat the bottom,cure then lay on its side and coat the side ,etc etc


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FTM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 13:21
Spit-roast the tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shyted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 15:33
Ha ha ha . My misses went ape sh*t at me for, A ,having crank cases in the oven and B ,trying my hand at DIY carbon fiber making in the oven.
Joking aside, we use silica gel bags in masive junction boxes ouside , and theyre exposed to all manner of weather.Harsh environment on old crap.They work pretty good and absorb loads of moisture . Very cheap method . When the ice comes ,drain and strip the tank,let it air out for a week.Pack it full of the bags and store it some place indoors where it's warm and dry or do you have a de humidifier.Don't think there really is a quick fix by the sounds of it and time seems to be the best one.
The coating seems a good idea for when you get it sorted though.
I used to be uncertain , but now i'm not sure anymore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 15:40
Originally posted by Shyted Shyted wrote:

Ha ha ha . My misses went ape sh*t at me for, A ,having crank cases in the oven and B ,trying my hand at DIY carbon fiber making in the oven.
 
Big smile My one was bearing shafts in the freezer being discovered and the Bearings in the oven heating to installation temp Embarrassed
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 15:42
You can get bags of the silica granules from Aldi as inserts for the dehumidifier boxes they sell. Just watch out when they have absorbed all the moisture they go solid so might be ndifficult getting them out! Cheap as chips if I remember right.

You would need to make sure you seal the tank with the silica inside otherwise you will just be grabbing moisture out of the atmosphere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 19:53
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

Could you do this in stages I.e. Coat the bottom,cure then lay on its side and coat the side ,etc etc


Here are some photos of the resin I used to coat the plastic tub. As you can see from the first photo the inside was keyed and you can see the scratches which the resin should be grabbing onto. You can see where it has stuck with the black patch that is obviously the only place it has taken. 

This is the inside of the tub after the lose resin had been peeled away. The cold over night just cracked the resin and pushed it from the surface in most areas. If it had been warmed up the same would have happened but the plastic would have pulled away from the resin. 



This is the little pile of resin that I collected from the tub. I gave it the best chance of holding by keying the inside of the tub. But you would not be able to do that over the whole of the inside of the tank. 



The problem with trying to do it in sections is you need to key where the resin has cured as epoxy needs to have something to grab onto. If you dont it will just peel away at the joints anyway. Sealer is not an answer. If it was I would be selling the stuff as the Caswell resin works out about £100.00 per kilo and I get the same resin for less than that so it would be a good profit. But I just cannot imagine someone using it and then getting back to me and telling me it has not worked when I already know it will not work.. It would be like ripping people off... Not good..



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 19:54
Oops... Wrong second photo..

This is the inside of the tub after the lose resin had been peeled away. The cold over night just cracked the resin and pushed it from the surface in most areas. If it had been warmed up the same would have happened but the plastic would have pulled away from the resin. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 19:55
Long day.. damn.. Wrong photo again..

This is the inside of the tub after the lose resin had been peeled away. The cold over night just cracked the resin and pushed it from the surface in most areas. If it had been warmed up the same would have happened but the plastic would have pulled away from the resin. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 19:56
Bloody computer..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 20:11
So when you coat your tanks it works because the carbon fibre is much more temp stable?

Is CF ethanol resistant without a sealer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2016 at 21:19
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

So when you coat your tanks it works because the carbon fibre is much more temp stable?

Is CF ethanol resistant without a sealer?

The carbon I use does have some Phenol Novolac as part of its formulation but not enough to say it is resistant. So I use a pure base Phenol Novolac resin to seal it. I do it as I assemble the tank so the sealer is painted onto the inner surface to get full coverage. I also make my own adhesive which uses the same resin to ensure even the joints are ethanol resistant too. 
 

Carbon has zero expansion or contraction due to heat. The sealer resin also has no expansion due to heat compared to many other resins. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Topdeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2016 at 00:21
Used Caswell on my tank.

Here's the write up.

http://bikemeet.net/index.php?topic=8161.0

Just putting this up for info, heard all the arguements for and against but doing nothing wasn't an option if I wanted the tank painted.

I'll let you know how it works out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 11:42
Ahh, The Guinea Pig!

Waiting with baited breath for the results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 12:57
Presumably said guinea pig dried his tank completely before coating it?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 13:15
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

Presumably said guinea pig dried his tank completely before coating it?


Well, he at least went at it with a hair dryer form the write up in the link. How much more it needs, if anything, who knows.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 13:51
Still in two minds to do this or not. Tank has been drained and just need to take it off the bike and bring it inside. Once the tank has (hopefully) shrunk back down I may just take the cowards way out and try the fuel stabiliser, then if that fails look at doing the coating the following year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 20:11
I did mine with a powerful hot air gun many times over an extended period and that was still distorted.

The yanks are talking about many months in a hot environment to dry them.

An hour or two of warm air isn't going to make much difference when the nylon is so saturated it's come right through and bubbling the paint on the outside.

I hope he gets lucky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Topdeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 21:30
Took a lot longer then a couple of hours with a hair dryer!

That was just helping one of the many times it was washed and then flushed out with xylene.

Have a look at the vid in the link.

All the paint has been stripped and it will dry out for at least two weeks like that before it gets repainted.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Topdeck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2016 at 21:38
Also forgot to mention that I inspected the coated tank with an endoscope and it was completed coated. I rotated the tank continuously for about 90mins with the Caswell in the tank and had a sample in a small pot to see when the curing was complete. I had no puddling in tank and didn't have any access Caswell run out when I'd finished. The inside is covered in a consistent coating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2016 at 10:37
As I said before,good luck Wink



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 08:53
will be interesting  to see how it stands up to a year of season changes.  The resin may have a little flex (which shoes it is not a full Phenol Novolac resin but a blended resin as Phenol Novolac is a rigid resin when cured) but it has no expansion when it warms up.  Constant rotation would help keep it coated evenly but most will not do that. 90 minutes is a short period of time to be rotating it unless the resin has a faster action catalyst which would imply that it is a blended resin with a Bisphenol A epoxy which is a more flexible resin compared to the Phenol Novolac although is less chemical resistant content and it is also less suited to temperature changes compared to the Phenol Novolac.   You also have to remember that plastics have a self releasing property with resins so they do not bond by cross linking or a chemical bonding which is typical of plastic adhesives which is the strongest bond with plastics. It has to rely on a mechanical bond with epoxy resins which is not ideal. 

The Pre-preg I use also has a phenol novolac content in its formulation but the manufacturer has said they would not class it as an ethanol resistant formulation and I adding more to the formulation would effect how the materials work. This why I have to use the Phenol Novolac and as I have said I could supply it to anyone in 1kg quantities but I would not trust it long term.

The company who supply the resin to me have used my products to promote the resin. But if you read the properties is has good dimensional stability which is totally the opposite of plastics...

http://www.alchemie.com/2016/08/epoxy-ep575-fuel-tank/   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bladebod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 11:57
Ive just bought a plastic tanked Mille, does anyone know whether the "std" Mille steel tanks fits the "R" model
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 12:12
Yep straight swap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bladebod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 13:22
At the risk of sounding daft why dont owners just swap out the tank for a steel one, when it comes to selling the bike just put the placcy one back on and wave goodbye. Apart from the paint aspect it seems a do-able work-around.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 13:27
Originally posted by bladebod bladebod wrote:

At the risk of sounding daft why dont owners just swap out the tank for a steel one, when it comes to selling the bike just put the placcy one back on and wave goodbye. Apart from the paint aspect it seems a do-able work-around.


That's ok if you have a Gen1 mate but if you have a Gen2 that isn't an option...well not to my knowledge anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fugly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 15:51
Anyone anygood at panel beating a sheet of ally into a Gen 2 shape?

Although the swelling on my tank isn't too bad (I can get it bolted down) I now have small lumps appearing like blisters in the paint which I understand to be an issue of the ethanol saturating the plastic.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 16:24
Beater in Japan make alloy tanks for gen 1 but not sure about gen2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 16:31
When I took mine off yesterday noticed that one of the graphics was starting to bubble up

Reckon if someone started knocking out some steel/ally tanks there would be plenty buisness to be had.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 17:52
Originally posted by Sparky46 Sparky46 wrote:

When I took mine off yesterday noticed that one of the graphics was starting to bubble up

Reckon if someone started knocking out some steel/ally tanks there would be plenty buisness to be had.

The Tuning works do an RS250 tank in alloy.. It is the same price as my carbon ones and still needs to be etch primed and painted end should still be sealed as alloy is also attacked by ethanol..

As there are several versions it is the same issue as I have.. Which one will sell the most?? I have a Gen 2 tank here ready to mould from... But not enough willing to make it worth while to do.. Even for an alloy tank they need a former to get the shape close and would need to have a minimum number to make it worth while.

Looking at the cost of a typical beater alloy fuel tank you would be looking at about £2300 for one of their tanks... ($2800). It would still need to be painted too... I had estimated about £1000 less  for a pre-preg carbon tank... I think I need to up my prices to match Beater... lol..

http://japan.webike.net/products/21788541.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morepower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Nov 2016 at 17:53
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