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Stripping RSVR Factory frame

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albrown001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2015 at 19:48
Thanks m8.

I wasn't aware that they would blow the alloy out as well. Thats not good.

Will try to get them out if I can then if we are not sure. I think I could screw a bolt in to the threads and basically rip/pull the insert out of the frame if I have to. Where the plastic bits that go up the side of the frame are also bits that have been added to the frame. Not sure on these either. I think they are welded to the frame, if they have my guess is they will be aluminium as well.

My thinking is Aprilia wouldn't make two different frames. But thinking about the RSVR and the Factory its possible that they might. My thinking is that both the painted frame and the clear anodised frame is the same frame and the inserts were in there on both frames before any work was carried out. Only way to really check I suppose would be to have a look at an RSVR clear anodised frame and see if the inserts have been anodised or have been put in afterwards.

Or just pull them out of the frame and try to put them back in afterwards if I can. Worse case scenario I end up having to buy a new frame already clear anodised 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 00:03
IanG

Cheers for the advice earlier.

I was pondering over it and couldn't rest till I went back out and checked, so took used a flywheel from one of my RC car race ignitions and funnily enough the inserts are ferrous so they will definitely have to come out.

I also had a look at the bits where the plastic side bits that go down the frame fasten on to that hold the fairing and they are not magnetic and also seem to be tacked on by small welds so guessing that these are aluminium so should be safe, but will get them checked.

Will run the flywheel over the entire frame at some point just to check if there is ferrous metal on there and also get my friend who is going to do the anodising to have a good look at the frame. 

If anyone else has got any advice before I go any further please don't hesitate to add. Cheers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 00:13
If anyone owns an RSVR gen2 with raw alloy frame it would have been clear anodised. Would really appreciate if you could have a look at it and if possible just unscrew one of your plastic side bits that go on to the side of the frame (2x m8 bolts). Will need side panel removing.

And have a look at the two round mounting points that the screws go in to. Could you have a look at them and see if they are anodised the same as the rest of the frame or look like they have been added afterwards. Thanks

If there would be any chance of posting a couple of close up pics of them that would be most helpful too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 02:22
Bit stuck now. And what to do. There is no way they will come out. I think they have been put in from the inside along with the rubber when the frame was getting put together Unhappy

Only option would be to cut them out…

I think the rest of the frame is good to anodise though apart from the plastic side mounting points on each side mentioned earlier.

Any advice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 09:39
Personally, I'd go for one of three easy options rather than risk buggering up a perfectly good frame.

1: Put it all back together again as the black and gold version looks brilliant. Very old school JPS.

2: Get it and the swinger painted black. That would also look class. Maybe black wheels too.

3: Buy a silver frame and store the gold one for should you ever sell the bike.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 10:55
That would be my plan too.

But then details like frame colour really don't matter that much to me,if I was that bothered I'd paint it or maybe wrap it,I certainly wouldn't anodize it.

But then if we all thought there was only one option life would be very boring.

Vive la difference       as our Froggie neighbours probably wouldn't say LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 11:49
Looking at the parts fiche those items that will ruin your anodising do not seem to be available seperately. If it were mine, I would reconsider what you intend to do rather than wreck a good frame in the "wrong" colour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 12:01
Suspect they are steel nut inserts which would have been out in after the ali was anodised. Powder coat it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 13:46
The inserts are generally riv nuts.  I replaced several on mine and mates subframes and it's easy enough. The difficulty is getting the old ones out with them dropping inside the frame when drilled. Not a problem if they fall somewhere with a opening that you can tip them out of.
 
I'm also not sure if the entire frame is anodised. Generally cast surfaces don't anodise so well so it's possible only the finished surface sections were anodised separately before the frame was assembled.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 20:58
Cheers for further help and advice guys. Really helpful. 

Ordered half dozen of the threaded rivets. On all the schematic drawings that I have found the threaded rivet is separate to the diagram of the frame and doesn't actually show you where the rivet goes. 

So I am assuming at the moment that its the same threaded rivet in the frame for the ignition coil bolts as in the sub-frame for the seat. Won't really know till I get them. I don't know yet but if it is then there might just be a chance of me getting them out of the frame, leaving the original hole and then smacking a new rivet in after anodising if I get it done. 

Going down to see my friend so he can have a look at the frame and give me some advice on the anodising before I go any  further and i'll take it from there. Either way, now I have come this far I am having a polished frame one way or another.

Anyone got a Gen2 polished alloy frame that they might want to swap for my gen2 factory gold frame before I go any further?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 21:25
Genuine rivnuts are fitted using a sort of pop rivet gun if I recall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 21:58
Yes I literally just found that out, but looking at it I could probably make my own tool. I will know if I can when i see the rivets which I have just ordered.

I also don't think that there is any way of getting the rivet out of the frame because of this. I Can't drill them out as I can't afford them to drop in to the frame. Need to somehow get them to remove outwards. 

I'll have a think and make my mind up tomorrow. I was thinking about just drilling them out with a hole cutter and weld a top hat with an M6 thread in the middle of it in to the frame. All depend on what my friend says about anodising tomorrow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 22:07
Not quite sure how those frame threaded rivets work. I think when you screw something in to the thread it pulls up something like a cylinder, up the inside of the rivet making it tight in the hole.

If this is the case I might be able to knock the barrel bit back down inside the rivet and be able to then get the rivet to come though the frame. If this is how they work then there is no amount of pulling on the thread that will make the rivet come out. Basically the more you tighten down on it the tighter the rivet gets.

The more I think about this, the more I suspect thats how they work.

I'm also thinking that if I can knock the threaded barrel, if thats how they work, back down I might be able to get something on top of the barrel so I can use the threaded barrel to help pull the rivet out. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2015 at 22:47
I have a riv nut tool and it works exactly like a normal rivet and expands behind the hole. It screws onto the thread and then pulls on it to expand the crushable area.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2015 at 00:20
Cheers Spoonz.

Its looking a bit better now to be fair. I got fed up deciding so just drilled them out. No point going round in circles. Once I got them out I realised there was no way that they were going to come  through the frame. Not sure if that is a thin washer on there or some coating or thin metal lining on there or what. There was no way of getting them out without them falling in to the frame. Going to weld some top hats with M6 threads down the centre of them. It will be good as new when I get them done.

I also drilled out the frame plate so when i put it back on it looks like new. The ends of the rivets that held it on dropped inside the frame. Also managed to get both of them out too which was a bonus.

So far the frame is looking good. Lets hope my friend gives me some good news tomorrow







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2015 at 09:55
I admire your bravery. Not ashamed to admit I'd have wussed out and put it back together. Good luck with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2015 at 12:27
Thanks m8 Thumbs Up

I really appreciate that. 

Its not finished yet. There's lots more to follow Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2015 at 14:24
If you are willing to drill out factory fit rivnuts, you'll have no bother summoning the courage to tackle anything else you have planned...or not planned as the case may be. Meanwhile I'm still trying to find the balls to have a go at the front exhaust studs on mine. Seized solid and I refuse to break a stud. Ha ha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2015 at 18:04
Split the nuts with a cutting disc in a dremmel or grind a flat almost down the stud.

Once you get near the nut's tapping size they'll relax and you'll be able to unscrew them without any bother.

Once you have the pipe off spin a dienut down the studs to clean any crap out of the threads. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 15:21
This is the frame so far after I steam cleaned it. I had the paint chemically stripped. It had no blasting of any type as I was advised not to do it by the polishers. Its looking quite shiny already. I think this is going to come up really well.





These are the 20mm holes where I had to drill out the threaded rivets that were used for the HT coil bolt mountings.



I made up some aluminium insets with an m6 thread down the middle. I stuck some long m6 bolts in to them just so they cannot drop in to the frame and then not be able to get them out.



I'm going to get these welded in to the frame. My thinking is the long bolt will help locate them in the right place whilst welding. Going to look at getting them around 1-2mm proud of the inside of the frame. Then the frame will be going up to the polishers.



I think at this stage now how this turns out will all be down to the clear anodising.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 15:32
Originally posted by albrown001 albrown001 wrote:

 
 but still a bit worried that it might get ruined when it gets clear anodised. 

 
if it goes wrong powdercoat it black


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 15:51
I think it will be ok, but it is a one way ticket as stripping the anodising should it go wrong is not really an option as you will start losing metal thickness. But powder coat as Mark said would get you out of trouble.
Early Gen 2 Factory models had a blackish frame so you could go that route in powder coat.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 16:01
or hydrodip it lots of finishes available there
 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 16:07
Looking good there. While the frame is away getting polished you can get some of those weeds out of your lawn.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 16:14
Originally posted by davidrsurfer davidrsurfer wrote:

Looking good there. While the frame is away getting polished you can get some of those weeds out of your lawn.
 
Have you got shares in building and gardening services or something ?
 
I've got to skim my walls and paint my lounge door and he has to weed the garden. I reckon some OCD is kicking in.
 
If so Stu's bike must do your head in LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidrsurfer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 16:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MountainMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 16:39
Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:


or hydrodip it lots of finishes available there
 
 


Yeah! Snakeskin frame! Ha ha

Good call on the chem dip Albrown. Leave the blasting for wrought iron gates. It's looking well already.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 16:51
Fcuk the gardening. Thats woman's work Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 19:27
Do you fancy applying for Sports Personality of the Year?  LOLLOL


Sorry,couldn't resist given the hysteria after Tyson Fury's quite reasonable thoughts Wink



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote albrown001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2015 at 00:40
water sports personality of the year? Approve
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