FAQ Register Login |
RSV Gen1 not starting |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 11 Jun 2022 at 13:35 |
Hi All,
Had an issue a couple of weeks ago while riding home from work. Pulled up to my drive & turned off the bike with the key. Engine shut off but the starter was still going. Wiggled the key from on to off a few times which did nothing until the battery died a few moments later & the starter stopped. I disconnected the battery & charged. Connected it back up the next day & turned the key. Dash, lights & fuel pump came on but just clicking with no turn over when I hit the start button. Since then I have done the following: Checked the two 30amp fuses under the seat Checked all of the 15amp fuses on the right of the dash Fitted new battery, 150amp starter relay & uprated cables from AP (thought I may as well sort the cables while I am it & has been on the list for a while). Checked for voltage on the loom side of the starter relay (black/violet & red/yellow wires) which read around 7.5v when hitting the starter button Crossed the starter relay termials with a screwdriver - sparks but no turn over Still at square one with all electrics seeming to work fine including fuel pump priming sound when i turn the key but it just clicks when i hit the starter button. Any advice for next steps would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, Al |
|
wigginsjp
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: calne Status: Offline Points: 3460 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
After all that I’m guessing the starter motor itself is now burnt out…
|
|
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2004 Race Bike Kawasaki ZX10R 2007 Race Bike Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2020 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apworkshops.co.uk |
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks Wigginsjp, this was where I was thinking of heading next. I will take off the starter & see if I can test off the bike then report back.
Cheers, Al
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Took the starter motor out & hooked up to the old battery with two cables. Got some sparks but the motor didnt turn at all. Does anyone know if the splines should rotate freely on the starter motor? Mine are locked in place & do not move even if i try with grips
|
|
wigginsjp
Premium Member Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: calne Status: Offline Points: 3460 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2004 Race Bike Kawasaki ZX10R 2007 Race Bike Aprilia Tuono V4 1100 Factory 2020 www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apworkshops.co.uk |
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Interesting... thanks Wigginsjp. Ive had the Hanes manual out this afternoon which shows how to disassemble and overhaul but it looks a bit complicated to me! After a quick google Ive found a local company who refurbs starter motors so Im going to give them a call Monday morning & see what the cost is.
Thanks for your time today, much appreciated. I will report back once Ive sorted the motor in case its useful for anyone else. Fingers crossed the starter will solve my none starting issues! Cheers, Al
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi All,
I took the starter motor to a local company who refurbs starter motors. He called back the next day to say it had pretty much destroyed itself inside so recomended I buy a second hand starter motor instead. Found one on ebay & installed today. I was hoping the bike would fire up but still nothing....just clicking & fuel pump sound when i press the start button. Ive put the new battery back on charge for now while I have a think on where to look next. Any ideas?
|
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Online Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I know you say you have a 150A solenoid from AP so unlikely to be that but check out my thread from a while back: |
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thank you Legend, I took a deep breath & packed away the tools for today but will have a read through your thread & get the multimeter back out tomorrow to check the solinoid incase it is faulty
|
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Online Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Have you got dash lights? You might also have a look at this thread about the Ignition Switch: |
|
Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Did you test the replacement starter before fitting it?; lightening does strike twice in the same place.
|
|
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
|
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Online Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Good shout Steve, a guy I know fitted a replacement alternator to his (original) Mini a few months ago. You guessed it, he didn't check it and it was just as useless as the one he had removed. |
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi Both,
Stupidly i didnt test the starter before fitting...something ive been thinking about today so a good suggestion to try that. Im working away from today so will check when i get home tomorrow & report back. Cheers, Al
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi All,
I managed to get back out & spend some time troubleshooting the bike again this morning. Hooked the new starter motor directly to a battery & verified it works. Put the starter motor back in & tried to start again. Nothing, just clicking when i hit the start button. Tried to hot start by putting a screwdriver across the starter solenoid & the back started straight away. Looks like I can narrow it down a bit now. I am going to take apart the start switch first & test. Is there an easy way to test the solenoid is faulty? Cheers Al |
|
Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
With everything you've replaced so far and manually making the solenoid, sounds like the solenoid isn't working. You can disconnect the solenoid wire from the start switch and check the voltage at it when the starter is pushed, to confirm battery voltage is reaching it. Other than that, are your battery terminal bolts tight?
|
|
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ive taken the starter button apart & blasted with electrical contact cleaner then reassembled.
Now everytime i connect both positive & negative wires to the battery the engine tries to start on its own. This is without the key in the ignition.... I am now at a loss how to diagnose further as I dont want the starter to be stuck on & drain the battery or even worse kill the sprag clutch. Any ideas how to proceed? Thank you for the input so far, much appreciated. |
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
For a test ive just disconnected the new starter solenoid & connected up the old one.
This allowed me to connect the battery back up without starting. Put the key in the ignition & dash lights up when turned on. No clicking or fuel pump sound but starter turned over when i hot started through the solenoid. Disconnected, swapped back over to the new solenoid again which now does not start as soon as connected to the battery but also no clicking or fuel pump priming which is the same as the old one. So, does this mean Ive got two bad solenoids or could it be something else since the fuel pump is no longer priming when it was this morning? I thought I was making good progress this morning but now more confused than yesterday!
|
|
Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Sounds like either the safety circuit is active ( stand switch, tip over switch, kill switch etc ) or you have lost a power feed. ( fuse, unplugged connector etc. ) shorting the solenoid really just verifies the starter motor is good and a bit of a last resort really. It potentially will fry the solenoid if it was any good to start with or take out a fuse if there is lots of arcing. A meter is the way to go. If there is no trigger pulse to the solenoid or no feed to the fuel pump then the solenoid is not your issue.
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Okay thanks Spoonz.
I think im going to check all the fuses again tomorrow & if still no joy Im going to admit defeat & take the bike to my local mechanic & let them sort it. Thanks to everyone for their input |
|
JimmyV4
Moto GP Alien Joined: 07 Aug 2018 Location: Ipswich Status: Offline Points: 896 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
bomb proof engine, bolognaise electronics.
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi Jimmy,
To be fair, ive used this bike as a commuter for the past 5 years all year round. Its let me down on just a couple of occasions in that time, just need to keep on top of maintenance but I suppose every bike is different. I made school boy error yesterday & did not notice when reassembling the start button I left the kill switch on which explains the no fuel pump priming issue. Checked all of the fuses, kill switch off & now I have working dash, fuel pump priming but still the same old clicking noise when hitting the start button. Ive gone through two new upgraded solenoids from AP in the past month. What would be the chances of two duds being received in quick sucession? Im hesitant to buy a third to test & it not be that. Cheers Al |
|
redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
chat to Griff and let him know heat has happened
|
|
www.apriliaperformance.co.uk www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk |
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Online Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
As Spoonz said use a meter on the solenoid: 1. Check that the voltage from the starter button on the switching side of the solenoid is actually switching (Disconnect wires from solenoid). 2. Check that when the switching circuit is activated (switching side connected to solenoid) that the switched side of the solenoid is operating.
|
|
Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The clicking means you haven't enough electrical power to hold the solenoid closed.
Did you check the voltage at the loom side after disconnecting the solenoid wire from the starter switch, which I suggested 2 days ago? It could be that this wire has high resistance.
|
|
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi All,
Apologies Stevex, i forgot to mention that yes I did check voltage from the switch side as you advised. With everything connected except the switch side of the loom I am getting 11.8v when pressing the start button so it looks like the switch is fine. I have checked the solenoid off of the bike today as well. Connecting direct to the battery the solenoid clicks & also reads continuity between the terminals. I believe this verifies the solenoid is good? So far I have checked all below is working 11.8v going to solenoid when pressing start button Solenoid clicks & has continuity Starter motor works & fires up the bike when bridging the starter solenoid All fuses fine Battery is new & measures 13v Fuel pump primes & dash lights up when key is turned on but just clicks when pressing the start button Next course of action is to check the rest of the safety circuit as suggested by Spoonz. If I find no faults after that then I will give AP a call.
|
|
Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You say the battery is providing 13v, presumably at the terminals, but when you're checking the voltage at the solenoid via the start button it's 11.8v. If you had 11.8v across the terminals I'd say your battery is suspect or needs a good charge, so you may need to look at the wiring either side of the start button for high resistance through corrosion etc.
|
|
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
|
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Online Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm not saying you are wrong, but just for clarity, have you checked continuity both sides of the solenoid? It should have continuity permanently on the switching side whilst on the SWITCHED side, it should be open circuit when the switching side is not fed 12V and when it is fed 12V on the switching side (From the starter button or directly off a battery to isolate anything else) it should have continuity on the switched side. Clicking is not a foolproof way to know for sure that the solenoid is working. Ask me how I know? My answer is in the link that I posted above to a solenoid issue I had previously. The devil is always in the detail when fault finding! |
|
Rich Simpson
Moto GP Alien Joined: 02 Apr 2019 Location: Cornwall Status: Offline Points: 289 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I had a starting issue...even though I'd not that long before installed the HD cables, the solenoid and the HD Yuasa battery.
After a lot of messing around, it was the battery. You need to stress it...it shows over 12v across the terminals, but leave the bike with the lights on etc and you may see the indicated volts fall like a stone. Take the load off, and bingo, it's back above 12v...but it's still knackered. I recycled the so-called HD battery, and put one of these on instead No further problems...it wasn't even a new one...it had lived among the muck and bullets under my KTM Adventure engine for about 5 years. They rock!
|
|
Al_Rsv
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2017 Location: Gloucestershire Status: Offline Points: 88 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Thought I would come back & update with progress in case it helps anyone with the same symptoms I had. After pretty much giving up troubleshooting with the multimeter i bought a cheapo starter solenoid off of ebay for a tenner. Fitted it to the bike & it fired right up!
Not sure how much i trust the cheapo solenoid in the long term but i have been riding to work daily for the past couple of weeks without issue. Either my bike didnt like the uprated 150amp solenoid or I managed to get a dud. Thanks for all the pointers people suggested
|
|
legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Online Points: 6598 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Glad you sorted it. Despite having numerous solenoid replacements it did still sound like a solenoid problem. I would ask Griff to look at the ones you got from him, he will want to know if he might have a batch problem.
|
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |