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Rich Simpson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Simpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Petition against 'anti-tampering': please sign
    Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 21:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mutts nuts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 21:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Horseheed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 22:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 22:26
Done 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 22:36
Done.

This one is important!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote twinfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2021 at 22:54
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on my licence it says "tear down the dotted line" so I DO!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote constant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 02:52
signed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 08:43
Done 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 09:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 09:11
another step in getting all the old cars off the roads.

gross.

signed and set to everyone of interest that i know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Horseheed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 09:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 09:30
Done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 11:00
Write to your MP's as well guys


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WallyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 17:43
Have you read the proposed legislation?
If not it is here - main thing i noticed was

We do not intend our proposals to:

  • prevent legitimate motorsport activities
  • prevent restoration, repairs or legitimate improvements to vehicles, such as classic cars or motorbikes
  • negatively impact businesses involved in these activities
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2021 at 19:29
The main problem is if they retrospectively ban all modifications that alter emissions. That means all after market full exhaust systems, cans, chips, air filters, Power Commanders etc will become illegal overnight. Many owners bought their bikes with these mods already incorporated or replaced worn / corroded parts. If every modified bike's parts mentioned have to be replaced with oem parts to comply, it will cost owners possibly more than their bike is worth, even if these parts are available. 
I know MAG and BMF are in consultation with gov.uk about these proposals and they aren't targeting many, if any cosmetic mods we do, but with the current global warming sh*t hitting the fan, I've yet to see that the emissions regs are not aimed at vehicles, including bikes, already in use as well as those built after the regs come into force.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cwp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2021 at 08:18
Done 👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Simpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2021 at 17:45
Good comments from SteveX and Wally B. Thanks.

The legislation as originally drafted would have banned pretty much all modifications, including the use of non-standard parts such as oil filters, tyres, and light bulbs. The only replacements permitted would have been manufacturer genuine, or manufacturer approved.

Various industry groups kicked up, and DfT then issued a 'clarification' saying it would only cover parts critical for emissions and road safety. But there is a danger that this may not be followed through. If you were a trail rider back in the 1990s you may remember the NERC Act, which, were were told by the Minister responsible, would not impact on our rights. Oh, but then it did, because a small group of MPs made sure it did.

Personally, I can understand why this legislation is coming forward. In road transport, for instance, it's now a specific offence to use a truck or bus with an 'AdBlue Emulator' or a chip which stops the EGR working, and DVSA will actually search vehicles for them.

Yet at the same time we have 'decat' exhausts, and ECU modifications which will vastly increase the emissions of modern motorcycles. In Bike magazine the other month, they had some idiot say that his business would disconnect the O2 sensor in you bike to make it more 'rideable' around town. It actually will make the engine overfuel, and produce illegal levels of pollution. We should not be surprised if legislators react to this blatant disregard for the law and for the public good.

However, I am very anxious that innocent modifications/improvements don't get caught up in the same net: hence I'm promoting the petition, and if it gets the 100,000 signatures will be writing to my MP to explain what is actually going on.


Thanks again to everyone who signed/shared.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Simpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2021 at 17:24
less than 500 more signatures needed to get it over the line now..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mad Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Dec 2021 at 19:16
Mad dog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2021 at 19:11
Over the line now for triggering the " Will consider debating this" clause.

 Just asking but what makes anyone think this or any other flavour government is going to give a rat's about what the voters think?

 They seem to be doing pretty much all they want in the suppressing of personal freedoms dept atm without much in the way of kickback Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2021 at 21:02
Originally posted by IanG IanG wrote:

 They seem to be doing pretty much all they want in the suppressing of personal freedoms dept atm without much in the way of kickback Angry

Absolutely.

Why the majority of the population seem to be falling for the doomsday forecasts and nudge theory I simply don't know. The BBC and other MSM have just become government mouthpieces over this, what happened to holding politicians to account?

I'm actually very worried where this is all going. Disapprove
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Simpson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 2021 at 21:30
Good points.

But remember there's quite a few Tory MPs in marginals who are now very nervous...and ready to listen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2021 at 02:07
So, the response is in!:
--------------------------

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Do not implement proposed new offences for vehicle "tampering"”.

Government responded:

The intention of the consultation proposal is to prevent modifications that negatively impact on road safety, vehicle security and the environment.

Our ‘Future of Transport’ work is a broad and ambitious programme focused on supporting the industry. The regulatory review aims to ensure our transport regulations are fit for the future.

As part of the Future of Transport: Modernising Vehicle Standards regulatory review, we have put forward proposals to enable Government to better target and prevent harmful tampering with vehicle emission control systems, as well as with safety and security critical systems, parts and components.

We are not proposing that all modifications be prevented, and we recognise there are legitimate reasons why a vehicle owner or business may want to modify a vehicle. Our proposals are not intended to hinder activities such as motorsports, restoration, repairs, or legitimate improvements and alterations to vehicles, or indeed do any damage to the businesses involved in these activities.

Nevertheless, certain modifications can negatively affect the safety and health of the vehicle owner, its occupants, other road users, and the wider population.

Tampering activities that prevent a vehicle’s emissions system from operating correctly, such as the removal of the diesel particulate filter from a vehicle’s exhaust, can significantly increase a vehicle’s harmful pollutant emissions.

Therefore, as vehicles become increasingly automated, we want to prevent alterations to a vehicle’s integral software and sensing technologies which could create safety and security risks. A badly modified vehicle has the potential to kill its occupants and other road users. It is also essential that we ensure modern vehicles remain cyber secure throughout their lifetime, and that any modifications do not make them vulnerable to malicious cyber-attacks.

The MOT test is an important part of ensuring that vehicles on our roads are safe and roadworthy. However, we must also recognise that the MOT test is fundamentally an inspection of a vehicle as presented at the time of a test and can only be a simple check.

There are risks in relying solely upon the MOT test to tackle harmful tampering. For example, it only includes basic checks for the presence and/or function of certain emissions control equipment and is not proof that the relevant emissions standards are being met. It is therefore important that we also have the powers to target and prevent tampering activities that negatively affect road safety, vehicle security and the environment.

We opened a consultation on these measures on 28 September, which closed on 22 November. The Government will consider all responses received and publish a consultation response summarising the responses and setting out the next steps. Any legislative proposals taken forward will be carefully defined so they do not prevent vehicle owners or businesses from making legitimate modifications to vehicles.

Department for Transport

Click this link to view the response online:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/600954?reveal_response=yes

This petition has over 100,000 signatures. The Petitions Committee will consider it for a debate. They can also gather further evidence and press the government for action.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shambo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2021 at 18:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2021 at 17:05
And of course we trust them never to use any loopholes in the future Wink

 I don't actually know where we're going transport wise as it seems petrol and diesel sales are following smoking and being cancelled,certainly going to be interesting if everyone could suddenly buy an electric car then all plug them in to recharge at the same time.

Don't know about the future being Electric,it's looking pretty bleak from where I'm sitting and I'm certainly not tempted to spend silly money on getting a new car jammed full of ecu's and variable timing wizadry that the clowns at the main stealers won't have a chance of fixing when it inevitively goes wrong.

I think I'll stick with technology I can personally fix for as long as spares are available,
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2021 at 00:06
Done 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2021 at 00:22
not be be negative nelly but they will always do what they want if it makes money somehow it will be implemented with 20 million signatures 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2021 at 12:02
I've read the reply. 
No where does it say these new regulations will not be retrospective. 
It does say a lot about 'tampering' which can adversely affect emissions. If these regulations do become retrospective this means everyone who has removed their catalytic converter silencer will fall into this 'tampering' group; all they have to do is get the MoT tester to check if the oem silencer is fitted. This is by far the easiest way to regulate these new changes as bikes have no emissions checks and no manufacturer NOX, CO2 or O2 levels to adhere to.
Other changes to chips, air filters etc would be almost impossible to police, bar legislating for road side checks. Next would be the Pandora's box of insurance companies carrying out hard ware checks of bikes involved in RTAs and excluding claims where an after market chip or air filter etc has been fitted. Some one tell me I'm worrying over nothing.
People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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