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Melted Fuse

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Ian75 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 13:52
HI All, 

Its been some time, and its getting on my tits now......

Please stick with me here, i will try and explain the best I can.

Stator burnt out a few years back, sent it off to west country winding and had it rewound, replaced the faulty item without the mid brown connector, bike ran. Smile 

A year or so later, stator goes again, back to west country windings, stator 2, this time has some thin white wire, better spec stuff, fitted to bike, but this time i replace the reg/rec with a new fandango type as stated in a blog on here / triumph net etc - SH775BA. There is no connectors between stator and reg/rec, direct connection.



I connect with Furukawa Connectors, it looks the bollocks now Wink






 
The only difference this time is the black wire in the original white 6 pin block is redundant.



Bike runs and everything seems ok Big smile

Then I get Flubber, the melted fuse Angry



I replace the fuse , and i get another, and another Dead 

So I cut out the old fuse holder and replace with x2 mini 30A fuse holders, and soldered in place, run again but these are getting hot....Embarrassed

So I think lets try again, re read blogs, and it seems sensible to bypass the bike original wiring and connect directly to the battery....

So I get 12AWG wire, new Furukawa connector, new Metri Pack 30A fuse holders and set to work. There is the minimum connections possible and decent grade wire direct to the battery.


I Fire the bike up, She is charging at 13.9 on tick over.
The original 30A fuses in the Black/Red and Red/White wires are now cool

but the fuse in the new direct positive feed from the Reg/Rec to the battery + terminal is still getting hot

Has anyone got any ideas...... the only other thing i could do is also connect the original wiring to the Reg/Rec + and - so that the load from Reg/Rec to battery is shared.

I would like to use my bike, not just work on it...
Thanks for time/comments

Ian




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 15:05
There is too much current flowing through the fuse, that's why it's getting too hot. Only 2 things will increase the current above norm -
 
1. High Load
2. High Resistance
 
Chances are it's not 2 as you have all new wiring and it did it with the old wiring too so that leaves 1. Something is pulling more than usual amps through that fuse and most likely thing is the battery itself if that fuse runs in between the batt and RR only. Unless you have any un fused add ons connected directly to the battery. Were it something ancillary, then the other fuses would be getting hot as well.
 
Maybe a less than 100% cell on the Batt or something, maybe get it tested.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 15:30
HI Spoonz,

Long time no speak...

Now I'm no expert, and far from it, but that was my thought, load or resistance?

There is no extra load, no heated grips or fandango neon lighting...it's as she has always been.

Originally when flubber arrived I thought it sh*tty connection in the original fuse holder, or just that the original wire was pants and old so struggling. That's why I replaced it.

After I posted this today, it did pop in my head it could be the battery being pants, it's less than a year old and has done no work as I have only done 100 miles, SHAMEFUL

Maybe the battery is just not suitable and cannot take it, or its Fubar.

How would I test it exactly?? Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 16:18
Originally posted by Ian75 Ian75 wrote:

HI Spoonz, 



How would I test it exactly?? Cheers
 
You ideally need to take it to a Quick fit or Halfords etc where they have a load tester. It measures the capacity of the cells under load and will soon show if it's fubar or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 16:54
Fair enough, good point well presented
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 22:36
Well here's a thought, just thought I'd check to see if I could find spec on the RR

Found this
REGULATOR-3PH 35A SERIES 105C part number 4012941
Firs polaris quads.

So here's my thought, it's giving out 35amps, I have 30amp wiring and fuse.

This could be my issue???

I'm gonna need a bigger boat


I welcome your thoughts

Just for the record, I wired up my original aprilia RR, it also heated up the fuse, but seemed to do it quicker, I guess if the new one is more efficient that would be correct
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prsv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 07:46
Sounds like battery is not excepting charge does it show green light on optimate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 08:02
Do you have a multimeter or access to one ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skullface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 11:02
Originally posted by Ian75 Ian75 wrote:

Well here's a thought, just thought I'd check to see if I could find spec on the RR

So here's my thought, it's giving out 35amps, I have 30amp wiring and fuse.

This could be my issue???

Just for the record, I wired up my original aprilia RR, it also heated up the fuse, but seemed to do it quicker, I guess if the new one is more efficient that would be correct

The 35Amp is a rating of its capabilities, it doesn't 'force' 35A out, but you should make sure its not having to deliver more than 35A to the bike or you'll kill the regulator eventually.

The series reg reduces current flowing in the stator, it doesn't deliver current differently to the bike. I mean its efficiency is in saving energy in the generator, its efficiency at the fuse position is irrelevant and no different.

You've got a cheap-ass  battery fitted... arguably the most important thing for RSV service items, try a TTZ14S-BS Yuasa from AP, and keep it on a battery maintainer .. see if things improve.

PS updating wiring and cleaning earths is only gonna make the problem worse by increasing current flow. HOWEVER replacing the correded fused holder is good as it reduces the contact resistance which is what creates heat also.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2017 at 22:51
Hey All, 

Story so far....

Amp Clamp arrived, with mate to use it.... along the new positive feed from the RR to the Battery it was about 35 amps, obviously too much for my 30 amp fuse and wiring, yep it got hot

so tea and discussions took place, and some arse scratching.....our own not each others, that would be a Suzuki forum

if we ran another wire that would share the load right? so effectively half each, so why not use the 2 red/white original wires at the RR end in the white connector.

thats what we did, 1 new 30A wire out of the RR + split then into 2 wires and connected back to the original red/white wires. one had 12amps and the other had 8amps, and the fuse didn't get hot.

so my thoughts, and me mate.......are that one of the wires goes elsewhere as one had greater current than the other, so some to the battery to charge, and some to feed something else, thus reducing the overload on the 30amp fuse at the battery...

So after looking , lots and finding a gen 2 wiring diagram that is actually readable, it appears to me(the novice) that 1 red/white is direct to the battery via 30amp fuse, the other red/white goes to the auxiliary fuses for lights hi and low beam, the immobiliser control unit , and the dash.

the way i had it where all the power was running up my new wire, to the fuse, then to the battery and back through the bike to the other bits, no wonder it was getting warm, the whole lot was being pulled.

so this leaves me thinking this.....Why did my fuse melt the first time, because its wired the same, the only addition now is that the original twin fusebox was sh*te, as was the cheap ass fuses, and when messing around with the wiring it seems like the 2 red/whites i joined by cringing into my furukawa connectors were not that good as one fell out when we moved stuff, so a combination of fusebox, fuse and crap connection may have cooked my fuse, by causing resistance at the fuse, and resistance at the RR terminal, which may have led to the whole lot of power going up the one wire to the fuse making it worse.

So now that the fusebox or 2 x metri pack fuses holders are properly done and really good, the fuses are decent ones, not light green jedi things, and the connections are solid at the RR to 2 x red/white there is no heat at the fuse(well a very slight warm feeling, but previously it was hot, like a day in the congo)

I welcome your thoughts on this, I am also having a warm feeling as I might be on the way to fixing my girl......

to be continued......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2017 at 23:12
Your logic seems sound enough to me. Electricity takes the line of least resistance so if you have a bad connection and it has another route, that is where it will go.
A draw of 35 amps from the RR which I think you said was it's max loading would still worry me though if that is not just when cranking. That's a lot of juice even with lights on etc. The RR must be working at it's threshold almost continually.
 
 
 
I think 2 x 55w bulbs draw about 10 amps so that equates to the brightest of general headlight bulbs, so where is the other 25 amps going once the starter has finished spinning. The Ecu, dash, taillight (which is led) should barely scratch the surface of the rest.  I would still want to know what the batt in isolation is pulling if it were me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2017 at 23:31
When the single new wire was connected it was 35, when we reverted back to the original it was 20 amps along the wire to the fuse, to the battery, but when checked at the RR end it was 12 on one and 8 on the other, it did rise when reved but regulated itself almost immediately, I guess that's right???

Sorry should have made it clearer, but I'm trying to get my head around it, never mind repeat it

I will check it all again when I can coller my mate again.

Would overloading the one wire cause resistance and increase the amps???

Ta
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kiwi_rsvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 08:32
In essence its how a light bulb or a heater element works.

A long single wire has more resistance than a short fat wire , any joins especially crimped ones will increase resistance as will any connectors, heat will cause oxidisation and that also creates resistance.

So you also need to check all the earth points are clean and not damaged. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 09:09
Originally posted by Ian75 Ian75 wrote:



Would overloading the one wire cause resistance and increase the amps???

Ta
 
Resistance in the 1 wire has to be the cause if the amps reduce when over 2. Were it a current draw from a load the amps would match the single wire but split over the 2. As it dropped the single wire was the cause.
 
So many possibilities as to why the wire caused it. Not all wire is made equal, single or multi core, metal quality and type and the joins will all have a bearing on it.  If you have 20 amps for the 2 combined I would say job done, that is more what I would expect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2017 at 09:34
I'm kind of hopeing that it's now sorted, all I have to do is connect the temporary spade connector Y piece at the RR in a more permanent fashion, and see how we go.
Fingers crossed.
Thanks for the input, it is nice to bounce the results ideas of others, it means I'm not going mad, unless we both are
Cheers
Ian

Will update in progress aft er she's back together and Motd, with some use
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2017 at 16:25
Went for a 200 mile spin on Saturday just gone, bike performed like she used to, and no sign of flubber, fingers crossed, will keep checking and update
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 11:47
Here we are some years on, and its been fine ever since
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2020 at 12:25
So we can conclude that Luigi back at the factory and Rafael the Aprilia accountant combined their talents to concoct an unholy alliance of cheap components and shoddy manufacturing to uphold the reputation of Italian electrics then? LOL

You do seem to be somewhat unlucky though



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