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JMH's 1060 Big Bore project
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Moto GP Alien
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Points: 326 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JMH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 17:01
The bias will change towards the rear with an empty tank.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Even taking it down to about 5l for a 20 minute session should be more or less 50/50 though. Not the 48f/52r I thought it would be. Of course, once I'm on it the balance would be more like 70% rear LOL
Owen
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Some work is planned for this winter too. Probably not doing anything with cams but making a question here.


I  made this. My logic would be that given the tolerance of 1,9 mm with Kent opening @ 26 the inlet cam should open at 25. Then, at the first go we saw the standard cam working up to 62, so the inlet should close @ 60. That would give some timing tolerance if the V-P clearance would become too tight. The lobe center would be 107,5 and duration 265 degrees with valve clearances. The latest measurement with standard inlet have a duration of 259 with valve clearances.

So, the the cam should have a duration of 272 degrees, that is six more than the standard 266.

Impenetrable logic?

2017-2018 STANDARD

2019-2020 KENT + INLET

2019-2020 STANDARD
REAR

REAR

REAR

OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION


OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION


OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION
IN 15,5 61,5 113 257

IN 26 66 110 272

IN 22 57 107,5 259
EX 56 17 109,5 253

EX 61 17 112 258

EX 57 15 111 252
FRONT

FRONT

FRONT

OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION


OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION


OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION
IN 16 62 113 258

IN 26 66 110 272

IN 22 57 107,5 259
EX 56,5 15 110,75 251,5

EX 61 17 112 258

EX 58 15 111,5 253
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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OK, heads are ported and skimmed by 0,1 mm. Piston ring gaps were 0,67/0,65 rear and 0,63/0,70 front (top/bottom). Now they are 0,45/0,55. That'll help with the excessive breathing and with compression too.

Will time the cams as they were the last time above: 107,5/111 to see the difference and will use standard cams :D

Gonna be interesting to see how it goes. Need to time the cams and put the thing back together.

Meanwhile, look what daddy found in Berlin. An unused RSV engine with the loom and TB. That'll make a good base for the next build.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Wow a spotless gen2 motor. That is a nice find. 
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Gen1 (or is gen1 big valve considered gen2 here?)
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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owner of the big bore!

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It’s a twin plug isn’t it?
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Moto GP Alien
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Yes, twin plug, RP engine.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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The Collector Messiah

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i saw goldfish offer that up on af1 

good score Wink


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Originally posted by JMH JMH wrote:

Gen1 (or is gen1 big valve considered gen2 here?)
looked like mag valve covers on my phone. 
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The Collector Messiah

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Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

Originally posted by JMH JMH wrote:

Gen1 (or is gen1 big valve considered gen2 here?)
looked like mag valve covers on my phone. 
or a spec savers visit needed Colin?


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Originally posted by redratbike redratbike wrote:

or a spec savers visit needed Colin?

I am colour blind to certain colours ( genuinely) but it was my phones fault guv
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A Big Bore

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I'd like a Gen 2 motor like that, very nice find !

www.apriliaperformance.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk
www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk
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The step between the intake and seat is gone, some glass bead blasting, machining the guides and apparently touching the seats too a tad way up there plus lapping the valves. I hope the seats stay in place...

Valve clearances might have changed a little. Need to check.

Some poor pictures...
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Cams not timed yet but made a table that could be helpful for others too. This is maximum valve movement at certain crank degrees, with 38/31 mm Gen2 valves. Heads skimmed by 0,1 mm. Durations are a tad wrong as I use an American calculator and 1,0 mm lift but been doing it wrong the same way from the beginning so I keep record of the duration degrees as well.


 V-P "RAW"

EX IN
-15 8
-10 7,3
-5 6,8
0 6,6 6,1
5
6,3
10
6,7
15
7,5


You can deduct your valve lift from those numbers to get a rough idea of your clearance with standard BB head gaskets and the AP Workshops kit (and small valve GEN2 head).

Funnily, I have roughly 0,1 mm more raw clearance now after decking than I hade before when the measurement was done on engine that had been run for a while. Measurement accuracy, carbon deposits etc. may play a role here as the engine has ported heads and the valves were lapped for instance.

The way these things go....
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Timing and V-P clearance sheets, AP workshops BB kit, standard cams & 0,1 mm decked heads.

2020-2021 STANDARD
REAR

OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION
IN 21 57 108 258
EX 56,5 15 110,75 251,5
FRONT

OPENS CLOSES CENTER DURATION
IN 21,5 56,5 107,5 258
EX 55,5 16 109,75 251,5



V-P "RAW" Valve Lift V-P Clearance

EX IN EX IN EX IN
-15 8,0
3,9
4,1
-10 7,3
3,5
3,8
-5 6,8
2,9
3,9
0 6,6 6,1 2,5 3,0 4,1 3,1
5
6,3
3,5
2,8
10
6,7
4,1
2,6
15
7,5
4,7
2,8



Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Dyno time is conveniantly 1.4. April fool’s day.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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The 140 barrier on the wheel has been broken, with many many decimals.

The prototype is finished. May the serial production begin.
Click image for larger version.&amp;amp;nbsp; Name: 1,4,2021 Final.jpg&amp;amp;nbsp; Views: 7&amp;amp;nbsp; Size: 97.4 KB&amp;amp;nbsp; ID: 415198

Comparison to 2020. Both have 108-111 timing but 2021 has ported heads skimmed by 0,1 mm and tighter piston ring gaps.

Click image for larger version.&amp;amp;nbsp; Name: 1,4,2021 comp 134.jpg&amp;amp;nbsp; Views: 7&amp;amp;nbsp; Size: 95.3 KB&amp;amp;nbsp; ID: 415199

Comparison to 2018 when the timing was 113-111
Click image for larger version.&amp;amp;nbsp; Name: 1,4,2021 compp 138.jpg&amp;amp;nbsp; Views: 6&amp;amp;nbsp; Size: 95.9 KB&amp;amp;nbsp; ID: 415200

And comparison to stock

Click image for larger version.&amp;amp;nbsp; Name: 1,4,2021 compstock.jpg&amp;amp;nbsp; Views: 8&amp;amp;nbsp; Size: 96.3 KB&amp;amp;nbsp; ID: 415201

Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Damn... imgur is down and how do you upload pics from your computer here. Now the pic links are copy paste from AF1 forum.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Damn.... crank case has a fracture around cylinder stud bolt. Need to use the bottom of my 50 tkm spare #1
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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The Collector Messiah

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Originally posted by JMH JMH wrote:

Damn.... crank case has a fracture around cylinder stud bolt. Need to use the bottom of my 50 tkm spare #1

ouch not good news 


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Due to lack of time I had to outsource the swap. I hope it is up and running before mid May. Will be testing 110-111 timing against the previous 108-111 too.

Gotta get the spare 1060 ready at some point to avoid a crisis like this. No Aprilia! 
 
With some luck and craftmanship the fractured casing can be spared and maybe even reinforced.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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The Collector Messiah

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if you can find a welder skilled in repairing engine cases 

lots get done on dirt bikes so should be ok


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I know. It should be doable.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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It's alive. Spare engine #1 had bad bearings all along plus the oil pump bottom was grooved so actually the clutch side casing is sh*te too. Therefore, the recently acquired unused engine was used to bolt the BB kit and Gen2 heads on. Timing was changed from 108-111 to 110-111.

It is alive. It gave 138 hp/ 110Nm on the wheel vs. 140/ 114 Nm that the cracked engine gave BUT the dyno room temperature and humidity was a lot higher.

31,6 C/ 35% vs. 23,7 C / 30%

Next stop: ride it and start planning on a spare BB engine.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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The Collector Messiah

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great news … well done 


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138 is a huge number, would that make it around 150 crank?
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About that, yes. It pulls to the limiter on 6th gear quite easily with 16-43 gearing. Then you are doing about 270 km/ h or 168 mph.

As a precaution I took the lights out and started to prep it for trackdays.

Officer, I was just checking if the clutch slips under a heavy load :D
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Kymiring last weekend. Missed gear changes etc.

Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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Engine #2 is being built. Ported and decked gen2 heads with reground Kent APR03 inlet cams and OEM inlets at exhaust position. Being stupid I also got a TSS for this too. Once the built is done I’ll make a spec sheet with timings, squish, V-P clearance etc.

Kents have now 6 degree more duration than OEM instead of 16.
Mille Aarrr -02 (1060 BB, Gen2 heads, 2-2 Akra, timed cams, bespoke Gabro chip + TSS slipper) & Beta 480 RR MY19
My riding lines are like Hendrix's solos. Unexpected and always different.
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