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Here's why my Tuono wouldn't start properly...

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RSV Ray View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 15:21
Take a look at the photos to see why my Gen 1 Tuono wouldn't start properly. It was fine when I bought it a few months back.

I had asked on here for clues and hints and pretty well everyone said PLUGS first!!

I want to say a massive thanks to all those who told me where to go! - before anything serious Smile

Seriously - thanks guys, this is such a great forum. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 15:28
Geez!! Got some plug gaps (or lack of) there bud!! Clap

Always plugs first!

Is that whole plug bent?!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 15:31
That's how they came out, although the inner one on front cylinder was a total sh*t to take out, it may have got a bit mangled up on its way out? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 15:34
2nd on left wasn't lined up in the photo (it's not bent), I just checked it after your comment!! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 15:56
Always simple things first!

Any miss-fire or starting probs (out of the ordinary) Change plugs first! They do wear out. But hard to believe that one was ever gapped properly? Maybe got stuffed on the way in -but being new was healthier? Who knows... Electrickery, 'tis the work of the devil! Evil Smile

You found and sorted it is what matters bud Thumbs Up

It's hard to tell from the photo's and angles, but how consistent are the gaps on the others?

That plug also looks more lean, but again could be due to angle of photo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 16:02
No feeler gauges to gap new ones that went it, so went in as manufactured, although they looked to be gapped pretty uniformly. 

I'd say one of them was running a bit lean - yes. Colour tells a story doesn't it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 18:10
As a plug ages with use, in theory the gap should get bigger. That must have been mullered by the previous owner on the way in. Surely?

Though it was obviously firing well, almost as normally when up to temperature -with a narrow gap the spark might be too weak to ignite fuel (insufficient burn). And thus be darker not lean. I could be wrong....? Although the benefit of a narrow gap is that the plug always fires on each cycle. So I would think it was firing slightly before it should, due to the lesser resistance of the lesser gap. A larger gap would give a hotter, fatter spark, a narrower gap weaker. Certainly could affect your starting. BUt as we have two plug per cylinder and I can't remember how it fires who knows.... Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 18:23
Yep, its had a few owners, although it's not possible to know when and who changed them previously. I know that it now starts instantly, and that's pleasing. Just need to find time to ride it now, and when its not 25 - 28c + round these parts.

I bow to your greater knowledge of spark plugs though, and I'm sure more will join in.

Talk about Betty Swallocks atm Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 18:27
Off out to see if I can get some progress to clear the DPF on a car I bought recently. 

Put Forte Diesel Turbo cleaner in with 20l of fuel and ran it up and down A3 using the manual aspect of the autobox last night. I will not put on here what revs or mph Question
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BIG UN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 18:40
good work buddy.
all running good now then?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2016 at 19:08
Glad you managed to sort that.

As Diablo says, the gap will widen in use and you normally find that new plugs come with a 'wider than needed' gap from the off. Although you have already seen an improvement in starting, I would get them back out and gap them properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 09:54
Yeah all running thanks, and hope to ride it tomorrow when its a bit cooler. Baking round here right now, and I don't ride like so many idiots do in shorts and t shirts. 

Saw someone on a gixer 1k like that the other day!! You'd think they have half a brain, but riding like that makes me think that if they had half a brain, it'd be lonely Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2016 at 20:07
Originally posted by RSV Ray RSV Ray wrote:

Off out to see if I can get some progress to clear the DPF on a car I bought recently. 

Put Forte Diesel Turbo cleaner in with 20l of fuel and ran it up and down A3 using the manual aspect of the autobox last night. I will not put on here what revs or mph Question


Not a Peugeot by any chance? Normally it's drive them at 3000 rpm, or a bit above to put them into regen mode and burn all the c*ap out of the DPF for 20 mins or so at that rpm.

All this emission control has a totally opposite effect when the cars get older and maybe defeats the original intention in the first place!! Evil Smile

I never use base or supermarket fuel (they have no detergents and gum a motor up, esp without regular quality oil and filter changes) I use only the "Supers" from BP and Esso etc. It does make a difference in cleanliness/burn that you can see with your own eyes if you ever take the head off!

Anyway -that's diesel, but the same with petrol bikes. Most of us run ethanol free unleaded, rather than the cheap stuff, mainly because of the reaction to plastic resin tanks. But it does keep the engine cleaner internally.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FTM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2016 at 07:03
Originally posted by Diablo Diablo wrote:



I never use base or supermarket fuel (they have no detergents and gum a motor up, esp without regular quality oil and filter changes) I use only the "Supers" from BP and Esso etc. It does make a difference in cleanliness/burn that you can see with your own eyes if you ever take the head off!

Anyway -that's diesel, but the same with petrol bikes. Most of us run ethanol free unleaded, rather than the cheap stuff, mainly because of the reaction to plastic resin tanks. But it does keep the engine cleaner internally.
 
Not according to Shell"
Received an email from Shell:

"Thank you for your email.



Ethanol is a renewable non-fossil fuel produced from by-products of the sugar industry or by processing wheat or other grains, such as sorghum or corn.



Petrol is blended with up to 5% ethanol in order to respond to the European Union and UK government’s initiative to promote biofuels, whose aim is to reduce CO2 emissions and enhance energy supply security. At Shell, we are passionate about fuel, and our dedicated fuel scientists work continuously in the lab to bring you the most advanced and effective fuels.

Both Shell FuelSave Regular Unleaded and Shell V-Power Unleaded contain up to 5% ethanol as stipulated by the European fuel specification EN228 and UK government legislation. At Shell, we are passionate about fuel, and our dedicated fuel scientists work continuously in the lab to bring you the most advanced and effective fuels.



Once again, thank you for contacting Shell UK. We do hope you have found this information useful.



Should you have other concern, please do not hesitate to email us back or call us on 0800 731 8888.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2016 at 12:19
I have a similar email from Shell and that is why I never use them!

According to both Esso and Bp, they are not using ethanol in premium unleaded fuel in my area LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RSV Ray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jul 2016 at 16:32
The car I just bought and am about to sell on because I don't like it (I did at first), is a 2008 Jaguar X-Type Diesel Sport 2.2 Euro. 92K. FSH. It looks like its off with the exhaust to clear the DPFs out. 

Just like Catalytic converters, they're a bloody pain in the bum aren't they! 

Been out and about on the Tuono today now its cooled down to 23c round here. It won't idle with new plugs in, although it starts instantly. 

Next... Evil Smile
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