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spiceweasel View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 12:21
I've recently fitted a lithium battery ,new upgraded starter cables and new sprag along with a full service, what's pi##ing me off is if I don't have the battery on the charger it drains and bike won't crank quick enough to fire, am I right in thinking it could be a power drain through the RR?, the bike often struggles to fire after being parked ie after a butty stop on a ride, any advice will be greatly appreciated as its really getting on my tits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 15:17
Originally posted by spiceweasel spiceweasel wrote:

I've recently fitted a lithium battery ,new upgraded starter cables and new sprag along with a full service, what's pi##ing me off is if I don't have the battery on the charger it drains and bike won't crank quick enough to fire, am I right in thinking it could be a power drain through the RR?, the bike often struggles to fire after being parked ie after a butty stop on a ride, any advice will be greatly appreciated as its really getting on my tits.

Would have to be one hell of a parasitic drain to drop low enough after a coffee break. If there is no alarm I would try another batt. Maybe borrow an agm batt from a mate to eliminate a bad lithium or something. You can use a meter to measure drain assuming it has sensitive enough settings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 16:20
this on a gen 2? do you have an aftermarket alarm or immobilizer ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 19:24
Have you checked if the battery is being charged correctly?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiceweasel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 19:41
It's a falco so Gen 1 motor, no alarm or immobiliser and the battery with charger came as a pair, I'm going to get my mate round as he has a bit more electrical knowledge than me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 20:48
When you say it struggles to start after a butty stop do you mean it’s a hot start issue and cranks but a tad slow? 
Aprilia RSVR Factory 2007 V2 1060cc Big Bore
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 21:20
What size battery is it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiceweasel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 21:22
Yeah a bit like that but I normally stop for a good half hr or so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiceweasel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 21:26
Shido ltx12bs 12v-42wh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 21:31
Minimum I use is the ltx14, I started using lithium’s about 15 years ago and racing batteries at the time specified a 12 ah lithium battery and it would barely start my rsv.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2021 at 23:54
Have you tried a battery 'wake up' before you crank it?
Lithiums work better if you introduce a bit of a current load beforehand.
Switch the lights on for 10 secs or so before you try to start it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 00:33
Agree with Tifa, my bike will struggle a little on a cold morning but is absolutely fine if I leave the ignition on while I put my lid and gloves on. My Shido has just been replaced FOC after 2 years as it stopped working suddenly. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 13:18
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

Agree with Tifa, my bike will struggle a little on a cold morning but is absolutely fine if I leave the ignition on while I put my lid and gloves on. My Shido has just been replaced FOC after 2 years as it stopped working suddenly. 

bloody hell that s got to be rare aint it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 21:42
Originally posted by JimmyV4 JimmyV4 wrote:

Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

Agree with Tifa, my bike will struggle a little on a cold morning but is absolutely fine if I leave the ignition on while I put my lid and gloves on. My Shido has just been replaced FOC after 2 years as it stopped working suddenly. 

bloody hell that s got to be rare aint it?

3 year warranty on all their lithium batteries mateThumbs Up
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimmyV4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2021 at 21:54
rare that it clapped out i mean, mines been goign strong for nearly going on 2 years id imagine. but great to know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2021 at 12:02
Li batteries don't like to be fully discharged as it can kill their cells.  Had to replace my navi V  Li battery after a couple of years as it no longer held any charge.  They also have a max nr of charging cycles before they won't accept full charge like most batteries.  People often think they'll last years but the reality is whilst lighter, they often don't last any longer than regular Pb batteries.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2021 at 22:02
A well maintained lithium battery will last for between 2000-5000 cycles, whereas a lead acid battery will last between 500-1000.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2021 at 08:46
Mate,

I’d suggest going back to a regular joe kind of battery.
Lots of pros and cons but the devil is in the detail and it seems this isn’t working for you.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2021 at 09:34
Originally posted by Mad Dog Mad Dog wrote:

A well maintained lithium battery will last for between 2000-5000 cycles, whereas a lead acid battery will last between 500-1000.

The key words being "well maintained".


My experience with Li batteries is that cycle life is highly dependant upon things like temperature, load, and discharge state before charging.  I use a lot of them in my work.  They can last less than 500 cycles or as much as 2000 but there's a lot of "ifs" in that.  I've had many fail way less than this for no apparent reason.

Personally, I'd rather stick with a good lead acid battery for use in a bike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2021 at 09:50
Original battery on mine from new  12yrs old , always on optimate when left in garage , couple months ago it started struggling every now and again which put oil warning light on and service warning , changed it for the stronger TTZ 14 from AP and all cured . Lucky I guess ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2021 at 15:31
Originally posted by Vee60 Vee60 wrote:

Personally, I'd rather stick with a good lead acid battery for use in a bike

I've been around the houses with this a number of times including talking to a contact who is actually involved in the design and production of lithium batteries.

As you say, many pro's and con's but I've decided to stick with traditional batteries on my RSV (Well, AGM and upgraded from the original of 20 years ago, so not totally traditional) and my latest one is now Three (Maybe Four) years old and it fires the engine on First turn of the engine every time.

This is going to become a big thing with Battery EV's soon. There was a tv program on last night and one of the things it pointed to was the recommendation to not charge above 80% or to let it drop below 20% (So you actually only have 60% of the battery capacity to play with if you follow the manufacturers recommendations) to help ensure a healthy battery lifetime. They did a test on a seven year old Nissan Leaf that only showed a range of 37 miles and ended up as only 17 miles as he didn't think he would reach the next charging point beyond that! My 17 year old diesel A4 still goes 500 miles on a tank that I can re-fill in five minutes!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JJW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2021 at 17:27
So, anyone in the motor trade at a reasonably high level will know the direction we will be steered in.
There will be some new guidance hitting us all over the next few months but pure EV’s are not the way forward… at the moment … until the next change of direction…


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mad Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2021 at 04:13
Still hoping they make progress with the hydrogen fuel cell. Petrol stations can be easily adapted to sell it so the infrastructure is already in place, only problem is the manufacture is not energy efficient...... Odd seeing that it the most abundant element in the universe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vee60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2021 at 12:54
Interesting information that Legend88.  It's one reason that Lexus/Toyota haven't used Li batteries in their hybrids as they get 10 years from NiCad packs and being hybrids, they're always kept within the optimal charge envelope, another reason I prefer hybrids to pure EVs.  Takes up more room though but the extra torque makes it worth it imho.

James May recently reported complete failure of his Tesla after surprisingly few miles...they've been trying to hide reliability issues for years but it keeps surfacing.

We were promised some years ago that industry was at the dawn of new solid state battery tech and that didn't happen.  That relies on banks of super capacitors and a charging system made using a small capacity petrol engine.  Ford were well advanced with this and promised that their Tourneo (posh transit) vans would be first to benefit but they pulled the funding and it never materialised.

I think, personally speaking, we're being steered down a blind ally with EVs.  They're not the future I will chose unless forced into it.  The promise of lower carbon emissions doesn't stack up on whole life costs not to mention copper shortages, rising world price as a result, and the problem in limited Li reserves plus lack of Li recycling.  It's not clean energy at all.  It isn't even that efficient once you start looking at efficiency losses from generation, spinning reserves included in the calcs (they omit those presently) through the grid losses and ultimately in propulsion efficiency.  A small petrol engined hybrid in real terms is more efficient and won't leave you stranded.  Even our 2.2 tonne behemoth RX450h gets over 30mpg locally including lots of hill work (cotswolds) and a mate's X5 diesel which is 400Kg lighter doesn't quite manage that!

As for bikes, once petrol is impossible to find at reasonable prices or banned, I'll be hanging up my riding boots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote camngetit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2021 at 23:09
A bloke at work was on about the first ever flight of a plane using synthetic fuel made from water and a few other things all natural they have been using in cars and from what he says no changes are needed but weirdly nothing in the news ,think its on youtube 
its twins for me !!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 20:43
Porsche are busy building a volume synthetic fuel plant right now. They want to ensure their legacy cars have a future.

The next F1 engine regs (2025 on) will require 100% synthetic fuel to be used. And you can be sure when the F1 development race is underway by engine manufacturers and fuel suppliers, the progress will be rapid.

The only problem with synthetic fuels is that they don't expect to be 'Zero emission at the tailpipe' which is what the 2030 car sales requirements will be. They are anticipated to be 'Net zero' meaning they emit no more than the amount they remove from the atmosphere for combustion.

Of course we know that 'Zero emission at the tailpipe'is a con as it just shifts the emissions to the generation site. Other than Towns and Cities of course where it must be admitted that Zero Emission is a genuine advantage.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 21:09
The Germans have been using synthetic fuel for nearly 80 years 😏
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 22:03
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

The Germans have been using synthetic fuel for nearly 80 years 😏

mmmm!  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 22:10
Originally posted by 426hemi 426hemi wrote:

The Germans have been using synthetic fuel for nearly 80 years 😏

And synthetic rubber ( started at the same time for the same reason) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 426hemi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2021 at 23:17
War is the mother of invention sadly.
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