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Gen1 RSV Remap - Power Commander |
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Posted: 25 Jul 2022 at 10:43 |
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So since recommissioning the Gen1, especially on track one thing is very noticeable and that’s a huge hole in the low to mid range, I believe from where the modded header was fitted and never refuelled.
I know it’s got an EPROM in there but it’s fuelling so badly low down (driving out of corners it really hangs back and doesn’t clear it’s throat until 6000-7000 rpm I’m thinking it needs a remap. Im not really sure what the boundaries are between eprom and power commander and when it’s more beneficial to remap vs change the EPROM? Also, I’ve been quoted £300 for a new power commander map (mapped per cylinder) on the dyno from my local tuner which seems steep (for me at the moment anyway!). Any thoughts?
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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I have put a new fuel filter in (main one) but left the tea bag as it was.
So not completely ruling out a fuel feed issue but I’m guessing it’s more than likely a fuelling adjustment needed as otherwise the bike is lovely on the throttle
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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so what eprom you running ???
and do you have the pc3 connected at all did you clean the teabag filter at all??? when was the last time you had the throttle bodies and co levels set by someone that knows what they are doing ???
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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I believe it’s the 100, or whichever one is for just an end can, standard airbox.
I was just a little confused as to why I would need both power commander and an EPROM but they’ve both been on the bike from when I bought it so just left as is. Yes the PC is live and working. I had a fuel pump priming issue after recommissioning the bike which turned out to be to the PC battery Feed on the wrong way around, so that’s how I know it’s working/in-line. I’ve never had the TB set / balanced but prior to fitting the collector not had any fuelling issues. I didn’t clean the teabag but did replace the main filter. I’ve got a leaky tank so will have to take the pump out anyway, so can always have a look at the tea bag then to rule it out.
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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ok so that’s the wrong eprom if you are running a modded collector you need the fr200, but if the pc is powered what ever that map is will take over. clean the teabag takes 10 minutes once the pump is out try and get the tb’s set up
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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The FR200 has 2 maps, one for standard air box, one for open airbox. Map selection is via the usual snipped / connected wire at the ECU connector.
I'm running FR200 with oem airbox (+ modded collector and Giannelli straight through can) and it's way good enough for me.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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Agree, I've got the FR200 with modded collector, Devil open can and open airbox. Massive mid range improvement (Mainly collector I suspect) over standard and very smooth roll on from almost any revs over 2k. TB balance did make a difference too after all the mods were installed.
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Thanks gents, appreciate the replies.
I feel more comfortable going for the FR200 route given it’s tried and tested (good to know there’s two maps for the airbox situation too) My only concern is unplugging the power commander / taking it offline. I can’t remember but doesn’t it piggy back onto the injectors? I’ve already proven that the bike won’t start without the neutral wire on the battery terminal so I can’t simply remove its power that way (I’m not sure where it gets it’s live from?) Cheers
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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The pc takes its power from the injectors as they have a permanent 12v but a switched earth ( hence the separate pc earth to the batt. )
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Ok cool thanks.
So unplugging the feed at the injectors (assuming it’s not spliced) and removing the earth at the battery should be enough to disable the unit and allow the EPROM to do its thing?
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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yes that’s correct
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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I spoke to PDQ today my other local dyno shop and they quoted £375 for a new map plus any additional time to fit lambda sensors on the headers if needed.
5 hours mapping time though so you can see where the money goes. The purist in me sees the value of the custom map for this bike but the broke young parent side sees the value in getting an EPROM and hoping it’s good enough!
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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I paid £200 for a PC custom map via dyno runs on my CB1300, you're paying nearly twice as much. Mind you I'm up north, are PDQ down south? tbh I'm running an FR200 on my Gen 1 Tuono and I can't see a custom mapped PC being that much better if you get the bike set up after the chip change.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Good to know Steve.
As it’s such a well trodden path and they are still well used, I can’t imagine there are two many issues with it being ‘generic’ rather than made for that specific bike I’ve wondered if there was ever a back to back comparisons between this and custom mapping
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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£375 vs £50 there’s the back to back
yes it’s a well trodden route that most people are happy with. yes you’ll no doubt get a little more power with a custom map but the money you save you could spend on a modded collector and throttle body set up
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Agreed.
It’s an easier decision this way. I have a modded collector which is why I need a new map/EPROM! Looking forward to getting the full benefit out of it. Just need to find someone local to Berkshire to do the TB/CO balancing etc. |
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Bladerunner919
Premium Member Joined: 19 Mar 2020 Location: Bracknell Status: Online Points: 376 |
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You must be fairly close to me if PDQ is local? I'm in Bracknell.
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Yes I’m in Newbury fella
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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here’s some feedback from one of my collectors and an fr200 from a guy in GermanyModded Colector/Headers and Chip - First Feedback.Let me start with a big thank you to REDRAT and SOULDADDY as well as Ed at Forza Aprilia for their good advice, and help. Second, if anyone hasn't done this mod - which i find hard to believe - don't wait. It doesn't disapoint. |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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I can only concur with everything that has been said about the modded collector / FR200 Mod. With the improvement to low speed roll on and the complete disappearance of the hole in the mid range fuelling, drive improves to the point you really do not need the upper reaches of the rev range. A PC map might get 1 (Or 2) more HP at a specific point in the rev range but unless you are racing that is irrelevant.
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Good to know thanks Gents.
I’ve ordered it from Griff with a few other bits so will do a back to back test and report back with how it feels.
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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As a matter of interest what sprocket sizes are you running. On top of the changes youre planning a 16/44 set up will make another big improvement to power delivery. Im running 15/44.
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Good shout yes, as a matter of fact I’ve just ordered a 15t front from Griff and have either 42 or 44 rears. I might try 42 first and see what it’s like. It’s got to be better than 17/42…!
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Stevex
Moto GP Alien Joined: 05 Jul 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1333 |
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Save yourself the effort, go straight for the 44
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People say I don't know Jack Sh1t; but I do, he lives next door.
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redratbike
Moderator Group The Collector Messiah Joined: 07 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 16146 |
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15/44 will be a bit lively
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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It depends on what you want really. They are over geared as standard for road use but I just wanted it to be a bit more tractable at low speed but not all revy if at a steady speed cruise. I just dropped the front one tooth and went 16/42 and it did exactly what I wanted. Keeps the fuel consumption sensible too. I might change to a 43 rear when I change the chain.
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Just thought I’d share first impressions after getting the bike back together and out for a test.
I installed the FR200 EPROM and connected the blue/green wire back together to enable the map that suits my setup - Collector and exhaust, standard airbox. I moved the co trims to 12oclock. I completely removed the power commander. I also dropped the gearing from 17/42 to 15/42. The bike feels nice on throttle response, really smooth and initial opening nice and jolt free. Power feels more or less as it was to be honest. The hole between 4-6000rpm is certainly less pronounced and the power delivery feels more linear as it climbs through the midrange towards the top end but it doesn’t feel as bulging as all the reports would suggest so I might have some fuelling issues still. It does feel like it’s still being held back slightly and paired with the fact the rear cylinder feels very warm, warmer than I remember it when riding in wondering if it’s running lean. The gearing wasn’t night and day as I was expecting, it gathers pace well but will need to see what’s it’s like on track before changing to a 44 on the rear. I did find myself using 1st less which was the main aim anyway, but some added pep is always appreciated. |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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The rear cylinder is prone to running hotter as it's not in the airflow and this can result in lean running. Get the TB's set up properly - by someone who knows how to do it properly - and you will likely see another noticeable improvement. I put all my mods on but it wasn't till I had Griff set up the TB's that it all felt like it came together. |
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oscarb2b
Moto2 racer Joined: 27 Jun 2013 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Thanks yes I’m conscious that could well be part of the reason. Trouble is I’m bloody miles away from him so finding someone locally might be the only option unless I make a special trip.
Is it even worth trying the other map even if I haven’t got the open airbox. I’m not sure if that’s a richer or leaner map. |
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