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Gen 1 - Fueling advice

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JeyJey80 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Feb 2023 at 17:33
Hello, Ive searched everywhere and didnt found what I was looking for, so here we go.
1.)   I have a 04 Tuono with BMC filter, MIVV oval can (I know RSV hate shorties), and FR100 chip.
This winter I decided to make collector mod because of the power dip at 4-5k RPM. So I had it done, now running with FR100 chip. Tested it today, and there is definetly more power in 4-5k range. But i noticed if I go full throttle before that 4+k range the bike hesitates alot and 1s after its like slingshot LOL. I can feel how it looses power and suddenly launches forward. When throttle is like 50% it wont get this bad. This definetly wasnt problem before collector.
I know that for collector there is FR200 chip. But my question is, can chip make soooo much difference in the lower power band? Or is there something else bad with fuelling (fuel filter etc.)?
If anyone tried collector with standard chip, would you let me know, if you had these issues?

2.)   And second question, tried balancing TBs (51mm) and ended up with 2 and 3/4 FRONT and 1 and 3/4 REAR. After reading some forums, lot of people suggest 1 to 1,5, but with idle screw out my bike wont even idle with these settings, so I started at 2,5 and 2 and went from there. Would also appriciate some tips.

Thank you for answers Smile
Jonas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2023 at 21:11
I’m not going to profess to know about the TB’s adjustments but I would think you’d need to look at the trim pot set up for the chip you have and then have the TB’s professionally balanced. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2023 at 22:59
The FR200 chip is the correct one for a modded collector. It has two maps, one for EVO airbox and one for standard airbox. I have this setup with Devil can, EVO airbox and early less restrictive air boot and the fuelling was transformed from the original. No more mid range torque dip and far more tractable from low revs.

You do need a proper TB set up though, Griff did mine after all the mods were installed and this alone gave a noticeable difference in mid range driveability.

I'm not sure what set up the FR100 is for bit I'm pretty sure you need the FR200 with your collector.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 06:23
Well I know that you need TB synch + trim pots, but that will be the hardest part in CZ. We have only standard workshops, nothing like AP, which specialize in Aprilias. Official dealer have pretty bad rating :D. So finding shop will be real challenge :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bladerunner919 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 09:00
Originally posted by JeyJey80 JeyJey80 wrote:

Well I know that you need TB synch + trim pots, but that will be the hardest part in CZ. We have only standard workshops, nothing like AP, which specialize in Aprilias. Official dealer have pretty bad rating :D. So finding shop will be real challenge :(


Road trip to see Griff? Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oscarb2b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 09:33
I've experienced this first hand, trying cure the 'dip'. Similar mods to yourself, airbox, modded collector, the right length can, the right chip, freshly balanced TB and CO set by Griff. Straight out on the track after balancing and to be honest, it still feels hesitant and slightly slow in that 4-6.5k rev range even with everything 'optimised'. 

I'd love to rule in/out a custom map on a power commander vs EPROM, I don't think anyone's really published much if any information on that comparison? 

I'd like to see it freer revving through the midrange, as to me it still feels like there's more to come and room for improvement. 

Yes it get's better, but it's not night and day. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 09:43
I know it wont be perfect, but this is really too much hesitation, full throttle and it will basicaly bog itself and then launch itself like slingshot. It came to my mind, if maybe the FR100 isnt too rich in that 4-5k range? And full throtle in 4k just bogs the bike and cause small delay. Because with lower throttle input, its nowhere near this bad. Yes there is still a bit lower power, but overall stronger than without collector mod.
I will try to play with trims, right now they are at 12 o'clock. If I will see better results with leaner/richer mixture, then I will order FR200 for collector and go from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 11:10
Originally posted by oscarb2b oscarb2b wrote:

Yes it get's better, but it's not night and day. 

I have to say, mine absolutely was 'Night and day' improved. With the one caveat, I have not been on track but I have done thousands of miles on road, fast and slow. It's smooth, tractable and pulls like a train all through the mid range with no bogging down at all.

Maybe it related to another issue with your specific bike? Ermm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 11:11
Originally posted by JeyJey80 JeyJey80 wrote:

I will try to play with trims, right now they are at 12 o'clock. If I will see better results with leaner/richer mixture, then I will order FR200 for collector and go from there.

If you are going to stick with the modded collector, I would get the FR200 before messing about any further.

And as Bladerunner said, a summer road trip to the UK to see Griff at AP would be a good thing to do in many ways.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 14:53
fr100 wrong chip you need fr200

fr100 for a can and filter fr200 for a dual system/modded collector 

shows us pics of the collector mod 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2023 at 15:22
I will place order for FR200 today Wink
Then try to play with it, maybe contact few local shops, if they even know what Im talking about Big smile


Here is collector, again nobody here did anything like that, so I collected as many info, pictures as I could, pipe diameters etc.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oscarb2b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 10:30
Originally posted by legend88 legend88 wrote:

Originally posted by oscarb2b oscarb2b wrote:

Yes it get's better, but it's not night and day. 

I have to say, mine absolutely was 'Night and day' improved. With the one caveat, I have not been on track but I have done thousands of miles on road, fast and slow. It's smooth, tractable and pulls like a train all through the mid range with no bogging down at all.

Maybe it related to another issue with your specific bike? Ermm
 

I can only go on what my bike was like before/after getting balanced. Griff had very little adjustment to make as he said it was pretty spot on as it was. 

So really I'm looking at going for an open airbox (for more torque lower down?), playing around with a custom map rather than chip or just living with it! 

Don't want to hijack the thread here so i'll leave it there


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oscarb2b Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 10:31
Originally posted by JeyJey80 JeyJey80 wrote:

I will place order for FR200 today Wink
Then try to play with it, maybe contact few local shops, if they even know what Im talking about Big smile


Here is collector, again nobody here did anything like that, so I collected as many info, pictures as I could, pipe diameters etc.


Nice effort on doing it yourself! Looks pretty good to my untrained eyes :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 12:27
Oh, I didnt make it Smile, I dont have tools or skills LOL.
Found car exhaust workshop to do it for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 15:00
so the smaller the diameter pipe on the mod will also effect where the power is made etc

but looks good 

defo need the new chip to provide the new fuelling requirement as without you are now probably running slightly lean in the midrange area exaggerating this flat spot 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 16:09
Yea, could be the chip not providing enough fuel in coordination with new pipe mod.
Now its waiting time for me, I will let you know, when chip arrives, and I test it out.
Thank you for your ideas. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chemomche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 06:20
For the collector mod you need the FR200 eprom.
I believe it is not just fueling, but also difference in advance curves between FR100 and FR200.

When installing the FR200, keep in mind that it is dual map eprom
 - map 1 is when the ECU wire is connected(like restricted with the OEM eprom) - it is the leaner map, for bikes with standard airbox
 - map 2 is when the ECU wire is disconnected(i believe nowadays most bike has the wire cut) - it is richer map for bikes with open airbox(evo kit or similar)


My bike has Titanium EVO can, open airbox + K&N filter. I contacted the guy making the eproms(sorry i forgot the name) and he said that i will run little lean with fr100, but it is the right eprom for me since i do not have the collector mod. Now i am waiting to get my collector mod and install the FR200 so i can get the complete set up - callector mod + open airbox + FR200
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 13:13
Thank you for info Smile. Already connected ECU wire, since I dont have open airbox. Well, Im very curious if FR200 will make nice difference. Even with FR100 and less throttle input there was nice power boost in 4-5k range.
But cant use 50%+ throttle now LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 13:52
Originally posted by JeyJey80 JeyJey80 wrote:

Thank you for info Smile. Already connected ECU wire, since I dont have open airbox. Well, Im very curious if FR200 will make nice difference. Even with FR100 and less throttle input there was nice power boost in 4-5k range.
But cant use 50%+ throttle now LOL.
of course it will

here’s some feedback on an fr200 and one my collectors 

Modded Colector/Headers and Chip - First Feedback.

Let me start with a big thank you to REDRAT and SOULDADDY as well as Ed at Forza Aprilia for their good advice, and help. Second, if anyone hasn't done this mod - which i find hard to believe - don't wait. It doesn't disapoint.

Fitted the modded collector and FR200 chip last night but haven't hooked up a EGA or messed with the Airbleeds - Plug n Play. Didnt really have time (or the right clothing - i had shorts on, temperature has been around 38deg C all week) for an exhaustive test. But pulling on the Autobahn on my way back from the Workshop, short shifted into second and pinned it at 2000rpms. Where previously the bike would have bucked and kicked and demanded a lower gear, it just went! From 3K it pulled smoothly and cleanly bringing the front wheel up and just kept going. The "dip" between 4 and 6K is gone and the bikeis so fast and aggressive there now i can see me riding more there than higher in the rev range. What a transformation. Money well spent and as always with things like this, why did the bike not come this way from the factory?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeyJey80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 16:35
UPDATE:
Hi guys, today my FR200 chip arrived, so I had to test it Smile.
Installed it without problem, tried richen TBs (1,5 Front, 1 Rear), fired her up.....and..... running on one cylinder Ouch Sounded like weak XT 660 and revved to 5k.... So first I checked fuel, when fuel pipe was priming I heard bubbly noise (too low fuel after previous testings) so I filled her up. Primed 3 times (no bubbly sound) but still the same. I was a bit dissapointed, and started thinking what should I service first, but I said f**k it, pulled her from garage, started and suddenly idle sound changed, blipped the throttle and there she goes, 2 cylinders LOL. Few backfires, but since then it ran great (I think that old sh*tty fuel from bottom of the tank got into injectors and clogged it), now to testing. The hesitation I talked about in first post is completly gone, full throttle at 3k and it pulls, yes there is still slight power dip in 4-5k range, but nothing like before collector (but that is due to short exhaust can, dyno results by Gabro show it). So Im very happy that this episode is over and now I just tinker with TBs and TRIMs.
Thank you guys for your advices.
Jonas 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2023 at 18:58
good news

now get the throttle bodies balanced 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2023 at 07:52
Well done, but I bet that was a worry at first.

The FR200 was always going to be the way and as Red says above, if you can get someone who knows what they are doing to properly do a TB balance, that  should get rid off any last bits of hesitation in the low to mid range.
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