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Fuel pump not priming

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Noy Noy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Apr 2019 at 23:25
Hi guys, hoping for a little help if possible. To cut a long story short was heading out to get my 2006 Gen 2 Tuono MOT’d when the bike cut out en route. This has happened once before but restarted with no problem. This time however it wouldn’t and as the battery was getting flatter I abandoned it luckily at a nearby mate’s. Following morning armed with a spare battery and fuel the first obvious thing was fuel pump not priming. Everything else seemed fine and the motor was turning over OK on the starter. I’m an electrical beginner but checked the fuel pump 15 amp fuse which was fine ( and checked with a spare to be sure) Once home checked for corrosion on white connector to fuel pump harness = fine and I seemed to be getting power 11 and 10.6 volts at his connector. I’m reading lots about the resin degrading in the tank connection wiring but before I get the tank off and go delving does anybody know if there is something else that needs checking in the fuel pump circuit ?
Muchas Gracias
Al
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Timson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 03:42
I had exactly this problem... it was indeed the connection embedded in resin for the fuel pump wiring loom.
You’ll need to remove your pump assembly from the tank to test the continuity of the wires.

If the fault is the same as mine - Good luck finding a new loom. I repaired mine by digging the wires out of the resin. Threw out the embedded brass connectors, soldered the wires together them embedded everything in epoxy.

It’s been fine for the past 2 - 3 years, however I guess the epoxy will eventually degrade and start allowing fuel to leak through as it’s not really rated for immersion in petrol. Seems fine for now tho!
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Noy Noy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 07:41
Hi, many thanks for taking the time to reply on this, as you can imagine I was hoping it was going to be a bit easier to sort. It’s probably not a bad thing as I can check the fuel filter at the same time. Saturday’s looking wet so I’ll go for it then - annoyingly as the fuel light was just on before it failed I shoved a gallon of fuel in it. Should have waited - doh !
Cheers
Al
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Noy Noy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 07:43
Sorry forgot to ask - what make of epoxy did you use ? As yours has lasted quite a while it makes sense to try it.
Cheers 
Al
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IanG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 09:11
I'm interested in that as well, just in case.

I remember reading somewhere about the wires are a bit on the thin side when the pump is under load and wondered about upgrading them if I ever needed to change a pump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 10:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WallyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2019 at 20:00
i had the same problem but took the easy route.

 I found the pump wire would not take the load of running the pump but showed continuity ok ( so just be aware when you test it making sure you put electrical load on the wire). So what i did was swop the wire for the fuel level sensor with the pump wire and then swop the two wires in the block connector under the seat. Both pump and light work fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 11:48
I used Araldite Steel - which I thought would be the most fuel resistant.
All the guys on the US sites use JB weld.

So far my Araldiite is holding up just fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 15:41
Can still get the piece new but is £80 so definitely trying the JB weld or quicksteel approach 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2019 at 16:05
Thanks guys, on domestic chores atm but will get stuck in later. First job is to get 2 gallons of petrol out without spilling it everywhere. Common sense says go and buy a siphon (I am tight so the £2.49 part from Machine Mart appeals) I notice JB Weld do 2 types one of which is Kwik Weld that looks a touch more suitable.
Cheers
Al

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 19:13
Well chaps, finally got into the garage at 05.30 and got the tank off and fuel pump out. First surprise was how much crud was in the pump baseplate. Looked like somebody had been dunking biscuits- there was that much residue/oxidation. The tank inner looked fine so assume it was from old fuel -anybody else seen this? Have pics but struggle to get them on. After disconnecting the wires I checked the pump direct to battery and it worked fine. Just out of interest I put all the connectors back and tried it with ignition on and it primed up as well. Not quite expected. The resin looked absolutely fine with no degradation but I dug it out anyway. Just wondering if it’s worth the home fix or simply buy a new loom. I have a feeling the first part of the harness is suspect but watch this space. Thanks for everyone’s help so farClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 22:29
indeed I've seen the biscuit crumbs too. More like fine sand in my case. Four out of four bikes so far! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2019 at 22:58
It was like chunks of ginger cake initially but you’re right, as it dried out I was left with a bit of beach. Took a fair amount of scraping to get rid of all the crusty deposits. Good to get it all sorted though and I’m learning new stuff. Now know what an Oetiker clip is - jeez I need to get out more ........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2019 at 08:39
ye I had the sand when I took my pump out a year or so ago.had tank off to dry out over winter was the teabag all waxy too? .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 22:00
Hi Hangry,
Yes it was very slimy. Now it’s all dried out I’ll be giving it a bit of a vacuum. As the bike’s only covered 5000 miles in 13 years it’s no surprise there’s a lot of debris/residue from fuel that’s just been sitting there. Must get out more !
A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2019 at 22:44
it's a suprise the bike's  run at all sometimes mine was same hardly any miles.I could hardly blow thro fuel filter either so changed it all wilst i was in there.oh tip for the tea bag from grif rub with washing up liquid n really hot water.hope u get it all sorted out soonTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2019 at 06:43
That’s helpful thanks - was in two minds about the filter but after hearing that I guess it has to be done while it’s all out. 
Cheers
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tifa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2019 at 11:50
Embedding wiring & circuitry in resin is called conformal coating.
You can actually buy the resin specifically for the job.
Different types too.
Spent hours researching this sh1t to get a fix for my Tuono.
On the GenII Tuono because of the ongoing moisture in the clocks, I completely waterproofed the dash circuit board inside, so well in fact, that I recon it would have worked underwater...LOL

Google 'conformal coating' for more info.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2019 at 18:49
Ha ha Thanks ! The lengths the owners of Italian motorcycles have to go to eh ?!
ALOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2019 at 21:14
Tifa, that's interesting, thanks for the pointer. Whether I will remember come the day I need to is another matter!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Noy Noy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2019 at 20:22
Hi all, for those who may have followed the thread. Had a go at soldering the wires but gave it up as a bad job in the end and ordered the specific harness for £80. 

Figured as the connections looked fine it could have been a damaged wire or some such. Logic being all new was better and definitely not worth fuel pump cutting out in fast lane of the M6. Took a few weeks to arrive but now fitted and working perfectly. Being tight I wasn’t going to change the fuel filter but did in the end and glad I did as deffo seems to put less strain on the pump.
All happy now and rattling windows like before.
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