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Gen 2 Model Changes?

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    Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 12:48
Originally posted by BRG BRG wrote:

Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

... Every bike of every make post about 04 is using CAN bus.


The claim that the Gen2 RSVR uses a CAN bus always makes me smile!

Yes, it does have a CAN bus, but it exists only between the ECU and the Dash and is used for display information only. All of the sensors and actuators are hard wired to/from the ECU and don't use the CAN bus at all!

The traffic between the ECU and the Dash is as follows (cf. p.7-15 of the chassis workshop manual):

ECU->Dash
---------
Engine speed
Vehicle speed
Diagnostics
Neutral (indicator)
Stand (indicator)
Oil pressure (indicator)
Water temperature

Dash->ECU
---------
Odometer
Model ID

That was the extent of the CAN technology that was in use at the time on bikes.  The CAN bus on the prototypes was expanded but reliability issues meant that some features never made it to production.  The RSV4 etc is still using much the same extent of CAN even now.  Have a look at CAN channel 11/12 for example and u will find the injectors form part of the CAN and you can monitor fuel usage per km or per 100km as the duty cycle is being monitored. But as the trip computer was dropped it’s mot in the manual. At least 2 other instances of CAN features u won’t see in an aprilia manual or displayed on the dash but are active.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 12:08

spoilsport, that TOTALLY destroys the jokeEmbarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2018 at 12:04
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

... Every bike of every make post about 04 is using CAN bus.


The claim that the Gen2 RSVR uses a CAN bus always makes me smile!

Yes, it does have a CAN bus, but it exists only between the ECU and the Dash and is used for display information only. All of the sensors and actuators are hard wired to/from the ECU and don't use the CAN bus at all!

The traffic between the ECU and the Dash is as follows (cf. p.7-15 of the chassis workshop manual):

ECU->Dash
---------
Engine speed
Vehicle speed
Diagnostics
Neutral (indicator)
Stand (indicator)
Oil pressure (indicator)
Water temperature

Dash->ECU
---------
Odometer
Model ID
BRG
https://c9932541.myzen.co.uk/brgw/
'05 Ducati MTS 1000S DS 'Neppomuk' "[...] a nugget of purest green"
'06 Aprilia RSV 1000 R Factory 'Nibelung'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 21:17
I didn't do half the checks you did jambon tell you what tho I got a bike that is stonking mate really impressed with it iv only had vtwins and it's the best bike I've had.spoonz not being funny but I think the swingarm did effect some 05 models some of them sold as 05 but on vin had 04? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 21:04
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

Yes 100%

Well that's getting done ASAP, thanks. Will wait to hear from the Aprilia dealer about the swing arm and if they can do it for free I'll make an offer to the dealer. Fingers crossed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 20:51
Originally posted by Jambon Jambon wrote:

Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

It has the updated swinger. No permanent fix for the clocks other than replacing them.

No 05 bikes should of left the factory with the old swinger or bad clock mileage wise. If they have now it’s probably not original.

Thanks for the info on the swing arm, I want to believe! If you replace the clocks with the newer ones does that fix the resetting issue?

Yes 100%
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 20:45
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

It has the updated swinger. No permanent fix for the clocks other than replacing them.

No 05 bikes should of left the factory with the old swinger or bad clock mileage wise. If they have now it’s probably not original.

Thanks for the info on the swing arm, I want to believe! If you replace the clocks with the newer ones does that fix the resetting issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 19:00
It has the updated swinger. No permanent fix for the clocks other than replacing them.

No 05 bikes should of left the factory with the old swinger or bad clock mileage wise. If they have now it’s probably not original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 18:58
I'm pretty sure it looked like this. I would have thought swing arms with 2 rivnuts wouldn't need part no.30?


 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 15:35
Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

The speedo and swingarm was only an issue on 04 models so unless your buying that year specifically it's not an issue for most buyers.

This bike is a late '03 and still has those issues. I've also seen '05 bikes too with squiffy clocks

Originally posted by Spoonz Spoonz wrote:

It does reflect badly somewhat on the original owner and partly the supplying dealer to be honest.

I agree about the dealer, he wasn't aware (or admitted knowing) of the swing arm issue even though it says 'recall' on the MOT history online. Presuming the swing arm wasn't changed, I'd agree also about the original owner. I managed to take one bad photo of said swing arm... I don't know if the presence of part No.30 means that part No.23 isn't screwed into a lower rivnut?





The last question I have is, would it be possible to get the clocks fixed permanently without them resetting ever again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 15:28

that website has been shown NOT to be accurate !


in this thread, piaggio are useless in every way. They reduced the wonderful Aprilia name with over 50 excellent models from takeover in 2004, to a badge engineered copy of what it used to do. Now 6 uk models ? of which only the rsv4 is unique to Aprilia !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wayneoh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 14:53
I know this is a bit of a side track but with so much talk about the swing arm I decided to check my own.
When I put the Vin number of my 2005 RSV 1000R into the site to check for re calls,
http://static.piaggio.com/recall/form-aprilia_en.html

it says "NO recall campaigns are pending for this vehicle.
          RSV 1000 R ROSSO"

but, looking at the swing arm, it has the lower chain guard bolted directly to it on the inside in the lower hole. Am I therefore correct to assume that this should have been replaced with a swing arm without that lower hole and a bracket to support the guard?

Wayne.   2005 RSV1000R Red.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 13:57
The speedo and swingarm was only an issue on 04 models so unless your buying that year specifically it's not an issue for most buyers.   

It does reflect badly somewhat on the original owner and partly the supplying dealer to be honest. Aprilia wrote to every owner and dealers by about March of 04 offering to replace the swinger and the clock issue had been well documented on the net and was a free warranty upgrade. (he had 2 years warranty to do that in)

Problem was around that time there were a lot of motorcyclke "supermarkets* and back street monkeys who should never have been given Aprilia dealer status who were only interested in box shifting and had no intereset in you or the bike once you left the premises or went bust 2 months into your ownership.


Aprilia delaerships were and largely still are the brands worst asset.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 13:31
When I had swingarm done last year I just rang a shop a gave my vin number they rang back 5mins later and said it needs doing think they had access to aprilia database.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 13:05
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, after having a think, if Aprilia can confirm they'll be able to replace the swing arm for free I'll go for it, albeit with a low offer. Knowing this needs to be done could will help with negotiating and also you have to go with your gut to some extent.

I get the impression with these bikes you have to be into them, what with the clocks and potential swing arm issues before you've even handed over any money. I'm fairly competent with a spanner and have a great mechanic who I trust - famous last words I know! Either way if this works out I hope to be posting as a regular even if it's a few months down the road so value all the advice.

Just a big thanks again to all who has offered advice and will keep you updated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarsOrBikes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 11:37
if it was just after start perhaps whatever they did was at the right side? Idle valve is there and the pipes to it. Did you see which side? The fact it started, stalled, and didn't restart without help says something is playing up maybe?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aaressveeguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2018 at 03:55
I'd think it's the vaccum hose(s) which comes off the plastic splitter under the tank and not really the fuel pump connector. I donot understand why they couldn't do a continuous hose as fitting the hose into the splitter with the tank mounted is very difficult-I realized this when I fixed my fuel leakage issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarsOrBikes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 23:51
Originally posted by Hangry Hangry wrote:

Also check pinch bolts on fork bottoms, can crack if over tightend


^ this too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarsOrBikes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 23:51
the only issue sounds like it's what they reconnected after it stalled. Why would a bike have run initially but not again until something was messed with? That concerns me from a mechanical point of view and I'd want them to show me what they did, so I could see and learn what and why, in detail. They know something I suspect.

low balling on the back of a lack of dealer service history on a bike as tidy overall as that appears to be I expect will prove to be a waste of time, these bikes will sell at that. Plenty of people service them themselves just fine. If it was a scruffy machine then the history could be some assurance maybe.

They'll break for more than that still though.

Recall's are not a matter of goodwill, either this bike has had it done and has since been over damaging the new one rendering it junk so the owner sourced a replacement that would do, or it is pending the recall action. Nobody needs the letter to the original owner, but the original selling dealer used to have the legal obligation to find and communicate with any current owner, I think this changed slightly, possibly to include resellers but I'm unsure.

Recalls are free of charge save for consequential scenarios, such as hugger screws seized, bobbins etc. Recalls are not a matter of choice from a manufacturer, they are determined as far as I know, by the department of transport on the back of notification of a safety concern the manufacturer is obliged to notify them of if that makes sense, at least that's how it was. A service action is something else, and quality improvements, usually you pay.

Personally, I think you'll likely get a positive response regarding the recall, and if you do that bike is worth what they want. If you don't buy it and it's still there after I sell my current repair bike, I will haha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 18:27
Also check pinch bolts on fork bottoms, can crack if over tightend
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 18:20
I thouht that about under the tank
the fuel pump connection normally under seet.bit weird that happens not trying to put a dampner on it
but I wud be concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 17:08
In some cases ( like mine ) the swingarm was recorded as done but no work carried out on the bike. I made many calls to try and resolve the issue to no avail.  In the end I bought a second hand swingarm and got Griff to fit it along with new bearings .

Not sure what they were doing under the tank????? There is a connector for the fuel pump under there that can come apart when the tanks lifted but wouldn't explain why it started then died. 

Possibly the throttle bodies need balancing if its been home serviced for years then it definitely needs doing. I would budget for a good going over, bearings and fluids minimum and ideally co levels and throttle bodies setting up. Check the Ohlins seals too very common to leak if the bikes been parked up .
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 16:39
Thanks everyone. 

Second official dealer I called was more helpful, they couldn't actually tell me if the swing arm was replaced (although looked very original to me with 2 rivnuts) or if it could be done for free but was going to confirm and get back to me on Tuesday. They seemed fairly confident it would be done for free but wanted to be 100% before I spent any money on the bike for example.

Think I'll wait to hear back, then offer a low bid if they can confirm it'll be done for free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 15:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hangry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 15:14
regarding swingarm yes it's absolutely free, had mine done last year but I did need new dogbone and bearings so count some money just incase bud.think it was bout 110/120 all in so not bad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 14:57
There seemed to be receipts for the services the previous owner did. The bike itself was in really good condition and I personally believe the milage, I'm just thinking about when I come to sell it and how that looks.

If I make an offer it's going to be quite a bold one, but not sure how I feel about buying a bike when the previous owner looked after it so well but the most obvious swing arm issue wasn't sorted.

The bike started from cold on the button no problem, was just when I pulled away it stalled (pos my fault) but then wouldn't start until he lifted the tank and reconnected something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Af1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 14:43

look at the mot history. link further up the page. Very few motorcycles outside of warrenty get serviced every year. Its just not needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BIG UN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 14:41
is there regular reciepts for the owner doing the services himself?
not good to advertise as full service history otherwise?!
6 yrs worth need accounting for,more so due too there being questions over mileage accuracy.
id be wanting a discount if i was happy with the bike but tbh id be happy id tested one and really liked it,
then id be looking for another same model  mate.
it could work out a good bike but id be weary just from it not starting first go (could be simple explanation but its always a worry with these with the sprag ect)
id be wanting to see a nice healthy fire up 1st go,and being a 1 owner from new,
id like to have seen the swinger recall already done?!

dont just jump in pal following your heart.
it looks a nice bike,if your happy with it,go for it mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jambon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2018 at 14:22
Thanks very much for the very detailed information, really useful resource this forum. Who would have thought?!

//////////////

I BLOODY LOVE V-TWINS. Was a blast to ride and had so much character, also the components looks like jewelry compared to the Japanese bikes I'm used to. Potentially 3 bad things though:

- The bike doesn't look to have the updated swingarm. I've called a local Aprilia dealer with the reg and they're looking into it. I basically want to know if I can get it replaced for free. The first dealer I called said there's nothing they can do without the recall letter to the original owner, which is strange as it's only had one owner from new.

- The bike wouldn't fire when I went to test ride it. They lifted the tank and plugged something in that was disconnected and was fine after.

- There's no dealer service stamps since 2012. The previous owner did all the services himself since 2012, even if the mileage is squiffy I'd hoped the dealer stamps would give some credence to 16,000 being the minimum mileage.

If I can resolve the swing arm issue I'll make an offer. Any advice welcome!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CarsOrBikes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2018 at 21:22
There is no bad issue with these. I've owned then since the beginning, he connectors need maintenance, the dog bone needs maintenance, the fairing fittings need not to be overtightened and they need maintenance. Obvious stuff

This bike is not 1 owner it's 2 which is fine, but not wishing you to feel misled. They say clearly one previous keeper which means current and original. The bars are not original Aprilia. The rear shock looks like the preload adjustment collars may be chewed up but I can't see nay closer.

It actually looks in nice condition. Bikes with frame sliders tend to be track bikes, yes I know they could also be to look after the bike but on these, it is for track usually. What I would do, is ask to see under the side panels. I doubt very much a good vendor will object and it takes two minutes a side. This tells you they come off easily which you need to know, and it allows you to check wiring beneath, see if the immobiliser module wiring under the left front is ok, and the brown connector and the yellow wires leading into it are not turning brown on the right front, you should be able to separate this connector and see clean terminals. The left side has a six pin connector you also need to see inside to check for clean terminals, this one runs the clocks and will stop the bike on the move potentially when corroded. The main purpose though, is to see that the oil tank and in particular the radiator, are not dented, and it gives you the chance to see more of the engine.

Under the rider seat on the left subframe spar should be a while sticker hole punched with the market area (country) and the year which will say 04, and not that you'll see it, but the frame cross bar under the tank, or in front of the shock will be stamped with the frame year which will be 03, and you reg will be a 53, as the bikes weren't out until the September or just after.

The tenth digit (I think) in the frame number on the right of the headstock will also be a 3 signifying the build year.

It does look clean. As for price, forget what the cheapskates say, these are worth 4.5k all day long even the oldest, and arguably the 04my was the best of the lot, not affected by emissions related changes to the engine, and the late 04my was a peach, having the later coolant temp sender, crank sensor, and map variant two was smooth, the suspension more balanced imo.

The colour schemes remained unchanged into 2004, and the lions head graphics bikes with clear lenses that I never liked, came out later in 04 for 05my. For 2006 the bikes lost OZ wheels and gained split fairings and Ohlins forks, which was the start of the decline for me. In 07 for 08my the frames went gold with gold wheels, which I did like the look of in black, but 04 wins always.

Another thing to check is the frame directly behind the pegs, as they hit and often actually stamp the frame if the bike goes over, plus check all four bolts are intact holding the airway onto the frame and no fractured plastic, plus check the vacuum pod is still on the right side of it, with two vac pipes going to it on the bottom right, seen just behind the right headlight.


Under the rear seat pod there is one solitary bolt holding the seat undertray to the rear most short subframe crossbar just in front of the rear light, it is also worth checking this is present, as if the subframe is distorted sometimes it doesn't fit, and if the back of the bike has been pushed, the same also. I would say check to see if there are all three mounts for each headlight too, as these can break off and people use the remaining two. This bike does look clean though, and a shop won't let you look at all this stuff.

Only my2p ;O)
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