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Datatool battery drain...

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Forzacfc View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 17:23
Hi people 
After reading up thru posts on Lifepo4 lithium batteries took the urge and fitted a shido direct replacement on the gen 2.... even fitted a Noco led indicator charge lead, anyway fitted correctly key on key off correctly as to not drain the battery..
We get to today Sunday, 6 days after fitting and we're down to 25% battery rating DeadDead
So, anybody got an opinion on this, and why... I know the obvious culprit would be the alarm...it was left in basic mode all week,but surely it cant drain that much. Cry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 19:28
Assuming it’s not a duff battery and the normal lead acid was okay it can only either be the ‘new battery’ sequence or the alarm would be my thoughts 

I removed any alarm I’ve had as they cause issues and they never changed my premiums but that may be luck as much as anything. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spoonz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2020 at 19:40
Most alarms have internal batteries to power the siren in the event of batt wires being cut. That batt charges from your main battery so you will always get some drain. Having said that a week isn’t long but in my experience if you have an alarm, you need the bike on an optimate or you will have problems. Even 10% battery loss can be enough to cause starting issue on a big twin like the Rsv. 

As has been said, I would gladly pay a higher premium than have an alarm as they are universally sh*te. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ajaycad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 09:09
Yup, concur with James and Spoonz. I have had Datatool and Meta alarms on previous Japanese bikes, and never had an issue personally, however as these V twins need all the battery power they can get for starting etc, I wouldn't consider fitting any electronic security device. 
Better to invest in a high end mechanical lock in my opinion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 09:33
Probably a useless comment but my gen 1 has near zero parasitic drain. Or too little to accurately read with my multimeter. Don't know if the gen 2 is worse though. Also the lithium battery doesn't seem to self discharge in a noticeable way. After leaving my bike standing for over 2 months I found the voltage still at 12.6v, which I think is the normal full charge voltage. 

If you're getting any kind of drain then something is definitely up. Either the alarm or maybe parasitic drain from dodgy wiring or something. But you don't say anything about the same issue with your old battery. Which makes me think something else is up. To take it down to 25% in 6 days would also kill an AGM, probably permanently. You'd think either the battery is dodgy or the start sequence didn't work. Basically what James said. 

If you charge the battery to full and leave it off the bike, do you get any drain over 24 hours? If you have a multimeter I'd try that first, separate the bike and battery and work from there. If no drain on it's own then connect it back up and start troubleshooting the bike.

Ajaycad, one of the good things with lithium batteries is they either kick with full power or they don't kick at all. So not really any danger of damaging the sprag from a flat battery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forzacfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 15:25
Thanks for the input fellas, regarding the AGM Motobatt, fully recharged left for a week, checked voltage registered 12.8v off bike. Obviously had to refit due to Lithium going dead over previous week.
So my situation is such.. I ride just 12 miles a week thats it literally 30 mins max on bike.
Regardless of battery fitted would they in your opinion drain off regardless with the voltage required for the Datatool alarm...
I'm now assuming its a case of ' just not riding the bike long enough' to gain sufficient charge to either battery, but this was the reason I went with the Lithium as people spoke of hardly any drain compared to an acid battery.
Alas I'm thinking regardless of type of battery, due to combination of alarm and riding time, its going to be a persistent problem for me. Ouch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forzacfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 15:54
I'll also re do the new battery sequence just to double check, I did fit and key on for 25secs, then key off, but I'll double check the correct sequence again.
Cheers 🍻
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 16:27
Sorry to hear about your problem,I've never had an alarm and a Li-on battery at the same time so can't comment directly.

My nearest experience was with a std small OE lead acid Yuasa on my SV1000s that had a Meta alarm fitted from new,I regularly left that unattended for 3 weeks + at a time and it was always an instant start so I'd say you may have an electrical issue unless Suzuki and Aprilia electrics are vastly different.

It only went on charge for a few hours in Nov every year and went back on the bike in Feb/March to be left and just started every 3/4 weeks during the season until Nov then repeat.

That OE battery lasted like that for about 8 or 9 years can't remember exact lifespan, I think on reflection it did let me down once after an extended no start interval that needed a top up charge but that coincided with the alarms internal battery failing so probably doesn't count.

I ripped the damn thing out after that as the insurance weren't bothered and no way was I going to spend another couple of hundred quid replacing it as the later units weren't just a plug and play,they were wired totally differently and even the origin install by a trained fitter was a bodge it turned out.

Alarms = complete waste of money,do yourself a big favour and rip the thing out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 16:53
I don't think battery technology is the issue here. Something is definitely up. If you have the lead acid connected then I'd see  what the drop is over 24 hours on the lithium. Also check the lead acid over the same 24 hours to see if that's dropping while on the bike. 

Are you doing little trips each day? Is that 12 miles / 5 days = 2.4 miles a day? If so, maybe your charging voltage is weak leading to it not getting charged up fully during the ride. So gradually getting flatter each day. Can you also measure the charging voltage? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 19:23
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

Are you doing little trips each day? Is that 12 miles / 5 days = 2.4 miles a day? If so, maybe your charging voltage is weak leading to it not getting charged up fully during the ride. So gradually getting flatter each day. Can you also measure the charging voltage? 


That's very likely, two starts a day - the 2 miles are very unlikely to even make back that lost charge due to starting (EDIT:not charging) never mind any parisitic drain.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forzacfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 20:11
Thanks again fellas for the incite, its appreciated. 
No, on the 12 miles journey it is literally 2 trips a week as I work away from yard so, 6 there on Sunday  and 6 back on Friday,  so as stated probably not even enough charge generated to replace the drain in the first place on the battery hence running down over 4 months from new even with a solariser charging thru the week on the AGM Battery... which is miniscule, so I think its going to be battery on proper charger thru week to maintain or unless the lithium Shido performs correctly after refitting, it'll be remove alarm. 😫😫
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forzacfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 20:14
...But knowing my luck, that'll go the same way,  even though people on boards saying... only needs a 10 minute run and its,fully charged... doing my head in to be honest, I love my bike and the twin V but getting hacked off now with this... just to go to work and back ffs.🙄
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forzacfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 20:18
Final thoughts..
I have for this week when parking bike at work put the alarm into winter mode, as described by Datatool effectively putting the alarm to sleep with no battery drain.... see how that works out. 😁
Fingers crossed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 22:30
If you have a multimeter I'd definitely measure your charging voltage. Voltage across battery with bike running. Should be well topped up again in 6 miles so I think you're not getting much back in. I had similar and fix was as simple as adding extra wires from reg/rec to battery to lower resistance.

If you can though, measure and see what's what. Otherwise its just guessing. You can get cheap multimeters and they should be accurate enough for most jobs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Forzacfc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 14:52
Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

If you have a multimeter I'd definitely measure your charging voltage. Voltage across battery with bike running. Should be well topped up again in 6 miles so I think you're not getting much back in. I had similar and fix was as simple as adding extra wires from reg/rec to battery to lower resistance.

If you can though, measure and see what's what. Otherwise its just guessing. You can get cheap multimeters and they should be accurate enough for most jobs. 

Hi bud,
Yes, checked voltage with mechanic at yard with bike running after last flat battery, we measured fluctuating 13.4v - 13.7v !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 15:38
Fluctuating is fine. Slightly on the low side I guess but ok I think.



How about discharge of the 2 batteries? The lead acid on the bike vs the lithium off the bike? Can you get them measured a couple hours after arriving at work and then again before you leave to come home? 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diablo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 18:06
An observation of the Datatool alarm (hate the bloody thing) is that it's parasitic drain actually seems quite high. Plus if you have a wet lead acid battery fitted, even if kept on a battery optimizer, the aforementioned drain, prevents the battery from ever being 100% charged.

Given that acid batteries love to be in a fully charged state, I have found this detrimental to the life of the battery and I used to factor a new battery into running costs every few years, despite being left on charge.

Having switched to Shido lithium on both the Aprilia (alarm/immobilizer) and the Ducati (just immobilizer), I have found that I need to charge the Aprilia once every few weeks when not in use because of the alarm. The Ducati doesn't need it, I just check the charge before riding. So it's a different routine to wet lead batteries that I used to just keep plugged in on a maintainer/charger.

I do need to remove that alarm on the Ape though. It's a constant inconvenience and I know it's going to let me down big time one day...


Question everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 2020 at 18:14
Originally posted by Forzacfc Forzacfc wrote:

Originally posted by blacklines blacklines wrote:

If you have a multimeter I'd definitely measure your charging voltage. Voltage across battery with bike running. Should be well topped up again in 6 miles so I think you're not getting much back in. I had similar and fix was as simple as adding extra wires from reg/rec to battery to lower resistance.

If you can though, measure and see what's what. Otherwise its just guessing. You can get cheap multimeters and they should be accurate enough for most jobs. 

Hi bud,
Yes, checked voltage with mechanic at yard with bike running after last flat battery, we measured fluctuating 13.4v - 13.7v !!

At tickover that reading is fine. At 3k rpm it’s a tad low. Measure at tickover and 3k. Needs to be a change of rising voltage whilst your checking with Owens excellent advice 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MotoTyke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2023 at 18:52
Did you ever get to the bottom of this?
I have a Tenere 700 and have the exact same problem.Datatool fitted btw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote camngetit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2023 at 21:06
I took the datatool alarm off my rsvr years ago it does help the battery 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chemomche Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2023 at 08:24
My gen 1 is draining the battery without datatool or any other electric device added on the bike.
As far as i know, this is normal for the bike - the manual confirms it and it is stated there that if you do not plan to use the bike for more then 2 weeks, you need to remove the main fuse to avoid battery drain.
Using lithium battery makes it worse(for the drain, but it is best mode ever) as even though the lithium batter has higher CCA rating it has 3-4 times smaller capacity, so if your bike drains normal 12-14ah battery in a mont, then the 3-4ah lithium will get drained a lot faster.

I ride my bike very rarely, 4-5 times a year, so i take the main fuses off after every ride and the lithium battery has not let me down since.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IanG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2023 at 15:59
A regime I'll be starting I think,it's a pita to start my Mille every couple of weeks as it's marooned at the back of the garage high in the air on a Skylift.

I have left mine for 3 weeks+ with a Lithium on and it's still started on the first piston to firing posn,but it is a higher capacity unit,even so as I doubt I'll be riding it anytime soon pulling a fuse is easier than removing a battery lead.
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