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Brembo brake discs on oz wheels UPDATE

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andyisavinit View Drop Down
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    Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 08:32
On an Rsvr 2002

I can’t see any L or R on my brembo brake discs. Going on a oz wheel. 

They look identical but just checking that they don’t have a particular side do they?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 10:59
Nope

But a good idea is once you’ve decided what one you want where, if ever you take them off to write an L or R in a chalk pen mark to show where they were orientated to enable you to pop them back exactly. Unlikely to be an issue with wear or warping however it’s a good practice 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyisavinit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 11:10
Thanks - what I thought.

I'm having real trouble aligning my calipers - the left side caliper is rubbing the rotor. So was thinking i might have fitted them the wrong way round.

Spent hours last night to no avail. Was reading about this problem online and have seen that I should loosen off the pinch bolts and bounce the forks a few times then tighten the pinch bolts.

I didn't try this.

So is this an approved method?

So just to be clear - I should tighten the axel bolt to torque using the correct sequence of pinch bolt tightening, then bolt on calipers (hand tight), then loosen all 4 pinch bolts, then lower bike, then bounce/compress forks a few times, then tighten pinch bolts and finally tighten caliper bolts (all to torque obvs).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 11:16
Is it a gen 2 Oz front wheel? If so, the wheel will need milling down to get the alignment right for gen 1 forks.

What you described is almost the process I use to get forks aligned. I tighten the calipers before tightening the pinch bolts. Axle, calipers, slacken pinch bolts, bounce bounce, tighten pinch bolts, squeeze brakes to get pads onto rotors.
Owen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyisavinit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 11:26
Yes definitely a gen 1 wheel on a gen 1 bike.

Ok so bounce bounce bounce is the only thing i didn't do last night. I will try this menthod. Thanks guys.

One last thing is it ......bounce bounce bounce OR bounce bounce bounce bounce OR bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce  - how hard does one bounce? LOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 11:32
LOL If you have a good bounce it could be just bounce. 

Key thing there was with axial calipers there's no point leaving them loose until the end. Think that's for radial calipers. So really I just get the calipers tight and bounce bounce to get the fork bottoms straight.

But really, that's not going to fix your problem with caliper rubbing on the rotor. It's more to stop brake drag really. Where is it rubbing? Do you have the pads in the calipers or are they out and it's rubbing against the little tabs where the pads sit? I find with pads out my calipers will touch the disc if they aren't torqued up yet. But ok once tightened. Though spinning the front wheel with calipers finger tight but no pads in is quite a rare situation to be in ha. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyisavinit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 11:40
Actually is this something to worry about that I noticed?

So bear with me....

Procedure went.....Insert axel from left pushing it home firmly (with spacer fitted on the right), then I tightened left pinch bolts, then torque up axel bolt, then torque up right pinch bolts, then loosen left pinch bolts (to release tension), then re-torque left pinch bolts.....

What I noticed is that when I loosened the left pinch bolts (to release the tension before re-doing them up) the fork moved outward about 2mm - is this the reason for bouncing? to centralise the wheel? This movement I assume is causing the caliper to foul the rotor.

Just read your reply - I had the wheel off and on so many times last night I couldn't be arsed torquing up the caliper bolts every time - assume finger tight would be sufficient - I'll try again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 11:54
I can't remember off the top of my head which side the spacer goes in. But that could make a difference.

I slide the axle in from the left and tighten up pinch bolts on right hand side. Just do this so that when I tighten the axle it doesn't just spin. Once the axle is torqued up, all pinch bolts can be loosened. This lets the fork legs find where they want to be. Like you found, when you just torque up the axle it can pull them slightly out of line. The bounce bounce is just to put a bit of force through them so they find where they really want to be. Overcome any stiction holding them out of place. In your case you saw the leg move back out even before you bounced it. Then pinch bolts are done up to just hold it in that position. Think they're only a safety thing really as the axle holds the wheel in place. 

Yeah try doing that and actually tightening the caliper bolts. Surprising the difference it makes. On my bike at least. Think because the calipers are fairly heavy and sort of cantilevered off the mounts. Small, almost undetectable, amount of play at the mounts can make a big difference up where the pistons are.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyisavinit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 12:09
Thank blacklines - will try again tonight, and report back. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 19:58
The spacer is on the left on my bike,looking from front to back,mines 03 gen 1 with standard brembo wheels,hope that helps👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 2020 at 20:00
Wheel nut is on the left aswell 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ice-mille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 11:10
When thinking of left/right, it is always from riders view. Mounted or like in a car, from behind steering wheel. 
The bouncing part is to centralise the wheel, wheel bolt in, nut on.
Thighten nut as much as you can, until bolt the starts turning. Then tighten pinchbolts on nut side (captive side) Thighten nut fully. Then bounce bounce....
Tighten pinch bolts on loose side the one without Nut. 
Put calippers on, hand thighten calip.bolts
Turn the wheel, brake, and hold brake. Now thighten calliper bolts, with brake on, callipers and legs will now be as straight as possible.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blacklines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 11:29
I tighten the bolts on my axial calipers before squeezing the brakes. Found the wheel spins more freely that way. My reasoning is that when calipers are tightened down they're always in the same place really. Any variance is going to be either pointing more up or down, which doesn't affect alignment. With a radial caliper, any variance is going to be skewing from being parallel with the rotor if that makes sense. The caliper can at a different angle to the disc. 

I do the caliper bolts first because what I really want lined up in the brakes is the pads/pistons. Once the caliper is locked in position, squeezing the brake lets the pads find their most comfortable position. The pistons could be sticking out more one side than the other. But all applying the same (negligible) pressure to the disc. Which is preferable to them sticking out the same amount but applying different amounts of pressure to the disc once the caliper is properly tightened. 

So if axial calipers, I think tighten caliper bolts before squeezing brakes. If radial, squeeze brakes then tighten caliper bolts.

Hopefully my technical drawing below LOL will explain what I'm trying to say. Obvious exagerration but didn't know how else to show it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Colly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 12:46
Fronm a riders view spacer and nut are on the right
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Colly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 12:47
From 🤔
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 13:00
Correct use of the spacer yes

If you look at the spindle the fatter end is a spacer in itself (N/S or left as sat on bike) leaving the removable spacer and the outer nut on the O/S or right as sat on the bike. 

I’m assuming the pistons were fully pushed home and move freely and that the pads are new. If so what make or type? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote legend88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 14:56
Originally posted by wigginsjp wigginsjp wrote:

If you look at the spindle the fatter end is a spacer in itself (N/S or left as sat on bike) leaving the removable spacer and the outer nut on the O/S or right as sat on the bike.


That is how my 2001 is set up. However in case it helps anyone, from what I have read, early bikes (I don't know how early) came with two spacers, one for each side, but they later incorporated the LH spacer into the spindle itself. Someone with a 98 or whatever year may like to confirm or refute the accuracy of this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ice-mille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 15:28
Sorry mine are radial yes. 
Did not point that out. Squzze
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2020 at 16:06
When torqueing up the axle nut, the manual actually says there's no need to torque up the left pinch bolts to hold the axle; just tighten enough to prevent axle rotation.
Everything should be tightened and torqued prior to compressing the forks EXCEPT the left fork pinch bolts. I pull the brake lever, give the forks a good push down about 5 times, then torque the left fork pinch bolts. This is how the manual describes the procedure.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ice-mille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2020 at 07:39
I just do the right side so i dont forget to, tourqe up pinch bolts.
One side finished, on to next.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyisavinit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 23:29
Thank you for all your advice and help. 

I decided to just park the job for a while and revisit when I was less frustrated and clear headed. 

On this occasion I struggled to get the axle spindle out. Ended up tapping it out with a socket. So checked it very carefully and it turns out it is bent!!!!!! I checked it before but not against a known straight one. There isn’t much difference when rolling them on the floor to compare. But there is a slight difference. 

Enough to prevent it from seating properly against the wheel, and therefore twisting the bottom of the fork and calliper hanger enough to make the calliper itself to rub the disc. 

The bike was involved in a front end accident. To the naked eye the spindle looked straight. But obviously a tiny amount out of true amplifies over a distance. 

Anyway you live and learn and pleased to get to the bottom of that. 

Need an axle spindle now. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redratbike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2020 at 23:46
Loads on eBay for about £30


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyisavinit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 00:04
Yeh just hope they’re straight! From breakers they could come from front end write offs. 

I bought some oil cooler pipes for a vfr on eBay (pipes are about 2 and a half feet long and bend round a lot of corners) and they were bent. Obviously a front end incident. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badapple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 01:41
I've got some Gen2 spindles if they are the same. 
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wigginsjp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2020 at 07:46
Originally posted by badapple badapple wrote:

I've got some Gen2 spindles if they are the same. 

Yup same part number 
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