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2018 Tuono RR suspension |
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2019 at 22:11 |
I had my suspension set up a couple of weeks ago,, it felt good on my motorway return trip. But, I took it out today on my local back roads and it felt awful. In fact more like a ridged peddle bike. So, before I put it back to factory settings has anyone got an idea whats gone wrong?
What are your settings for fast riding on moorland type roads?
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Spoonz
Admins Group Joined: 11 Feb 2008 Location: North Devon Status: Offline Points: 10726 |
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Usual mistake is too much compression damping. I would set it back to factory settings as a start. Other people’s setup depending on their style and weight might be just as far off as what u have now. It’s always going to be a compromise as what is great on rough roads will be less so on fast flat roads and vice versa.
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Thanks for the reply Spoonz.
Yeah, back to factory settings I think,
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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The curse of dialed in suspension What's perfect for an smooth A road or track will be far out for a bumpy B road,and vice versa I'm surprised these top of the range road bikes aren't all using reactive suspension by now. One of my mates of mine rides a pre SkyHook Mutley which he modded with the retro fit Ohlins Reactive control module at around £200 and he reckons it's now the perfect road bike. Still looks pig ugly though Only works if you have electronic adjustment in the first place though unfortunately. |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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If they didn't write down the settings, make a note of them when you do it. I.e. count how many turns/clicks you made to close off the compression and write it down. That way if you get back onto a track or smooth road and want a bit more support you still have the setup you've paid for.
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Yeah Blacklines, going to do that, I emailed the guy and he replied with some alterations to try, so Ill do them and see how it fairs.
#nothing to lose
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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My mates S1000R has that. Manual adjustment of preload and everything else is automatically adjusted based on his riding - supposedly. He loves it but his forks are always bottoming out and there's no way to do anything about it other than ramp up the preload! We've wound it up quite a bit and it still bottoms. It's a weird system as when we increase the preload it reduces static sag (Expected) but increases rider sag leaving the total sag much the same. I'm still trying to figure it out and have even touched base with Dave Moss in the US, he's not a fan!
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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I know it's not perfect,and even less suitable for track use but for ordinary road riding? I've not ridden my mates Mutley but he reckons that although the stock electronic Ohlins were very good the add on module really puts it in a different league. Apparently as you up the pace you can feel the suspension changing and tightening everything up,imagine a soft comfy long travel Mutley that turns into a comfy Panigale after a couple of enthusiastic corners. Don't know what the Sachs forks are like though. The story as I understood it was that Ohlins were pissed when Ducati and Aprilia went the Sachs route and so they came up with a reactive computer to add to their stock electronic system and priced it very low so it was in the reach of all riders to simply plug and play. I can well imagine suspension tuners being anti,it's like comparing ic's to the old valve technology and they probably don't have a clue what to do with it. I remember when the Big Piston
forks first came out with comp in one leg and rebound in the
other, Maxton were horrified and said it all needed throwing out and
replacing with conventional springs etc. Now it's the norm and they even market a kit to update conventional units |
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www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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Well, he's quick but not stupidly so and so far nothing seems to stop it bottoming out on the road and there's no wheelies or anything like that. No margin left for any emergency braking if required. I think (I may be wrong as I haven't used it) with the Ducati system you still get to set a baseline start point for the damping and you can also override it and use manual settings although it is all electronically set/adjusted via the dash. |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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Could it be too light springs or too big an air gap?
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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Just because something becomes the norm doesn't mean it is the best (And certainly not the preferred) solution. A tangent yes, but look at LED headlight units. If you talk to the tech managers of the major lighting suppliers they all say that HID is still way better. The LED's are a fashion statement by vehicle manufacturers which is really driven by cost not effectiveness. Same with the early projector headlights, they were abysmal and frankly dangerous if not used with HID but they were still introduced across the board with standard halogen bulbs.
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Oh,I agree. Most things these days are dictated by accountants not engineers. Trouble is though that suspension especially is such a black art to most that a reactive electronic system probably covers most bases for most people and is more easily justified cost wise as most would happily pay for the bragging rights. My point was that a well set up Ohlins with reactive capabilities to firm things up when needed would seem to be the ideal for most reasonable road scenarios. As I get older I feel that the more..extreme? riding where people seem to need track biased tyres,brakes and suspension really should be just taken to the track where it was designed to be. I question not only the desire for 150-200 bhp road bikes but also the capacity of 95% of owners to operate them safely. I couldn't . And based on observations from any given sunny Sunday round here lots of others are way out of their depth as well. Sorry for the detour,just a hobby horse of mine. Back to road going suspension settings. I'd suggest making a note of current settings and then softening off a notch or two until the harshness fades. It's all a compromise,different roads,different speeds and different moods while riding will always need different suspension settings. The more you dial in track type settings the more unrideable B roads become. I suspect Aprilia base their settings around a skinny Italian midget riding on a billiard table surface which kind of screws it up for a 6" Brit with a beer belly ( Or a 20st Yank with 3 beer bellies). |
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www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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blacklines
Moto GP Alien Joined: 08 Jan 2018 Location: Yorkshire Status: Offline Points: 1060 |
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I think whether it's manual or automatic, you need the springs and valving to be ball park. If you couldn't get the bike somewhere close with spanners then it's probably not fair sl*gging off the computer for not doing it either.
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Agreed But that's where all the problems start,mostly suspension tuners just ask your weight,what tyres and what sort of riding you do and then guess ( or in Ohlins case consult their database & then hope for the best) Ive been in race paddocks with skilled at setting up riders who've gotten lost and called in Richard from Maxton's to come down and fine tune their set ups as track conditions had changed overnight. The more zoned in you get the more it's likely to be wrong on another day/track/road / weather condition. Not so critical to road riders but still relevant to a certain extent |
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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well, Ive been in touch with the guy who set it up and via a few phone calls inbetween rides its pretty close to what I want.
I was really surprised how sensitive these suspensions units are, 1/5 of a turn on the rebound made a noticable difference. I just need to do a little fine tuning now. Thanks for the comments though.
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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That's the thing, the better the unit the more a small adjustment is noticeable. On the Showa units fitted to the twins they seem to have masses of settings on the adjusters but actually only about the first turn out from closed does anything. Anything more is all in the mind as due to the shape of the taper the ports are effectively wide open by then. Glad you got a result though
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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Yep, well done. Sorry we slightly hijacked your thread. I'm off now to adjust my chain in readiness for tomorrow's ride. The weather looks glorious until about 4pm and we will be back by then.
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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No worries about the hijacking. I might try and get over to the Lake District tomorrow, I'll take a screwdriver and try a little fine tuning.
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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Hey, if you fancy meeting up, I think we will be in Middleton in Teesdale for lunch via Alston and then back over the moors via Stanhope
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Thanks for the offer. I'm off on holiday on Sunday and had set aside today for getting money changed etc.
Enjoy the run , that's a good route but be aware they are laying top coat just west of Stanhope towards Alston, they might not be on your route but keep an eye open.
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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Thanks for the warning but we will be doing Alston via Hexham, Whitfield, Ninebanks and then will run to Middleton via Garrigill rather than the Nenthead road so hopefully should miss that unless it's literally on the entry to Stanhope. Although, I guess they can be anywhere There is a lot of that top coat dressing going on at the moment, it's a disaster and dangerous for bikes, my mate almost holed his radiator a couple of weeks ago. And near us they have just top coated a road where 25% of it had a brand new surface laid just last year, they couldn't be more incompetent if they tried. |
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IanG
Premium Member Joined: 04 Oct 2010 Location: N Wales Status: Offline Points: 10725 |
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Incompetence? I wonder It's happened too often in the summer round here on good biking roads that had good surface to be considered anything other than an attempt to deter bikers having fun. I'm talking isolated stretches of country roads while the main roads fall into decay and potholes. It's traffic calming by stealth,and it usually starts around the end of the financial year when councils have to spend the money squirreled away to qualify for next years budget. Although having said that it hasn't been so noticeable this year and I do know the council's been squeezed for money. Didn't stop them building a huge new chrome and glass palace to replace their old offices though. More cost effective they said. Right When services are being cut across the board to pay for it At least it kept the loose stones off the best roads so silver lining I guess |
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www.apworkshops.co.uk
www.apriliaforum.co.uk www.apriliaownersclub.co.uk Looking forward to the next track day |
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wasta
Moto3 racer Joined: 02 Mar 2019 Location: Durham Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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how did the rideout go?
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legend88
Premium Member Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Location: Newcastle Status: Offline Points: 6597 |
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It was a good run but as you suggested we encountered quite a few examples of the surface dressing disaster, even on the top over Crawleyside and no-one gets up there other than sheep! Went over to Pooley Bridge yesterday another good run but more surface dressing over Hartside! Shouldn't complain but it was bloody hot!
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